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+--- Thread: Are we close to a tipping point for a Constitutional Amendment to end the Electoral College? (/showthread.php?tid=125871)
Re: Are we close to a tipping point for a Constitutional Amendment to end the Electoral College? - Ted King - 10-24-2011
Can anyone provide a good argument for retaining the Electoral College?
Re: Are we close to a tipping point for a Constitutional Amendment to end the Electoral College? - swampy - 10-24-2011
A good argument might be that it's the Constitutional way we do things. Until there is an amendment to the Constitution it will be the way we continue to do it.
I don't see how any Congressional bill can just up and change the Constitution. It may be a popular aspiration of the liberal elite, but I doubt it can pass in Congress.
Re: Are we close to a tipping point for a Constitutional Amendment to end the Electoral College? - davester - 10-24-2011
swampy wrote:
A good argument might be that it's the Constitutional way we do things. Until there is an amendment to the Constitution it will be the way we continue to do it.
I don't see how any Congressional bill can just up and change the Constitution. It may be a popular aspiration of the liberal elite, but I doubt it can pass in Congress.
That's not an argument at all since the thread is about whether we will have a constitutional amendment. A constitutional amendment must be ratified by 75% of the states after it gets passed by the congress, so I don't know why you are talking about it as though it's only a congressional matter. Also, what does this have to do with the "liberal elite"? The electoral college system can hurt both conservatives and liberals by causing unrepresentative election results.
Re: Are we close to a tipping point for a Constitutional Amendment to end the Electoral College? - rjmacs - 10-24-2011
Ted King wrote:
Can anyone provide a good argument for retaining the Electoral College?
How about: it's worked for 235 years, and all in all, that's a pretty good record.
Re: Are we close to a tipping point for a Constitutional Amendment to end the Electoral College? - Ted King - 10-24-2011
swampy wrote:
A good argument might be that it's the Constitutional way we do things. Until there is an amendment to the Constitution it will be the way we continue to do it.
I don't see how any Congressional bill can just up and change the Constitution. It may be a popular aspiration of the liberal elite, but I doubt it can pass in Congress.
There is nothing unConstitutional about the National Popular Vote bill(s) and those bills are passed by states not Congress.
Re: Are we close to a tipping point for a Constitutional Amendment to end the Electoral College? - OWC Jamie - 10-24-2011
At least with what the Framers of the Constituition gave us , in a worst case scenario ( like the bit for shtrains in Florida in 2000 counting chads and ghosts) we get hung up recounting just one state.
I can't imagine recounting 51 (50 +DC) and the insanity that would ensue.
It's a good compromise system that has served us well since its inception.
Re: Are we close to a tipping point for a Constitutional Amendment to end the Electoral College? - Ted King - 10-24-2011
rjmacs wrote:
[quote=Ted King]
Can anyone provide a good argument for retaining the Electoral College?
How about: it's worked for 235 years, and all in all, that's a pretty good record.
The Roman Empire worked a lot longer than that, so I guess that's a good argument for us going to an imperial system of government. (I'm actually guessing that you were kidding, though.)
Re: Are we close to a tipping point for a Constitutional Amendment to end the Electoral College? - rjmacs - 10-24-2011
Ted King wrote:
[quote=rjmacs]
[quote=Ted King]
Can anyone provide a good argument for retaining the Electoral College?
How about: it's worked for 235 years, and all in all, that's a pretty good record.
The Roman Empire worked a lot longer than that, so I guess that's a good argument for us going to an imperial system of government. (I'm actually guessing that you were kidding, though.)
I wasn't kidding. And despite the fact that the U.S. operates as an empire globally, there's no evidence that imperial rule would work domestically. I think that stability has served the American experiment well over time, and the Framers intentionally (and wisely) made it very difficult to tinker with the Constitution.
There are many problems with the American electoral system today, and a limited amount of political capital to spend. The Electoral College system is very low on my list of priorities when it comes to "what we should change about American elections."
Re: Are we close to a tipping point for a Constitutional Amendment to end the Electoral College? - swampy - 10-24-2011
Ted King wrote:
[quote=swampy]
A good argument might be that it's the Constitutional way we do things. Until there is an amendment to the Constitution it will be the way we continue to do it.
I don't see how any Congressional bill can just up and change the Constitution. It may be a popular aspiration of the liberal elite, but I doubt it can pass in Congress.
There is nothing unConstitutional about the National Popular Vote bill(s) and those bills are passed by states not Congress.
Agree, nothing unConstitutional about it, but the Constitution is pretty clear about how we elect Presidents and the electoral college is only used in presidential elections. No vote by Congress alone can change that.
Obama may try to change that by Executive Order like he's changing so many things with the swipe of his pen. /sarc
Re: Are we close to a tipping point for a Constitutional Amendment to end the Electoral College? - $tevie - 10-24-2011
Ted King wrote:
Can anyone provide a good argument for retaining the Electoral College?
The argument is that we are not a democracy, but a Constitutional Republic, which the Founding Fathers created on purpose in an effort to have small low population areas have at least some of the clout of large highly populated areas. Also, as billb pointed out, to make an election taking place in multiple states manageable.
"Hence it is that democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths... A republic, by which I mean a government in which a scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking." ~~James Madison