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+--- Thread: Eat you heart out..... (/showthread.php?tid=152602)
Re: Eat you heart out..... - cbelt3 - 05-15-2013
Jest aside, the best method of involvement is the same way we were involved in Iraq I. With a good chunk of the world allied with us. Unfortunately this war has become, as an NPR commentator put it, "A proxy war". Remember those ? Israel + US vs. Syria + Russia ? Golan Heights ? etc... ?
Now it's Russia + Syria + Iran vs. Syrian Rebels . And the islamic sect lines are also drawn in this conflict.
Re: Eat you heart out..... - max - 05-15-2013
Acer wrote:
[quote=max]
And by going in what are you going to solve?
How?...
I presume the problem you see is that we get wrapped up in others' affairs where there is no choice that will work to our benefit. You see the solution as not getting involved. I'm saying our involvement is inevitable, like it or not. No. that is not it at all.
What is the problem you trying to solve?
Define it first.
Then tell us how you would solve it.
Getting invilved for the sake of involvement, then leaving behind a worse mess is not exactly a solution.
That is Bush in Iraq.
That is Obama in Libya.
I think I understand the problem and understand possible solutions, none of which we have the guts nor political willpower we would apply.
You think you have the answers and solutions, go ahead, answer these two questions first.....
Re: Eat you heart out..... - Acer - 05-15-2013
I appreciate your dedication to the Socratic Method, but I don't want to drag this out. Explain the problem for me, and your solutions. I am genuinely curious.
Re: Eat you heart out..... - rjmacs - 05-15-2013
So, it's fair to judge an entire military force based on the actions of one member or unit?
Re: Eat you heart out..... - max - 05-16-2013
rjmacs wrote:
So, it's fair to judge an entire military force based on the actions of one member or unit?
False analogy rj, in your case the perpetrators were prosecuted , in this example it is representative of continuous and quite consistent actions by al-Nusra, the majority of opposition forces. As a matter of fact the actions were officially justified by their leadership.
Try again....
Acer wrote:You are the one that seems to be advocating some sort of action.
I appreciate your dedication to the Socratic Method, but I don't want to drag this out. Explain the problem for me, and your solutions. I am genuinely curious.
Please support your argument, go ahead, drag it out, answer the questions...
Re: Eat you heart out..... - rjmacs - 05-16-2013
max wrote:
[quote=rjmacs]
So, it's fair to judge an entire military force based on the actions of one member or unit?
False analogy rj, in your case the perpetrators were prosecuted , in this example it is representative of continuous and quite consistent actions by al-Nusra, the majority of opposition forces. As a matter of fact the actions were officially justified by their leadership.
Try again....
"the majority of opposition forces"?!?!
Al-Nusra is estimated to have, at most, 10,000 members. The Free Syrian Army clocks in at 140K. Can you point to consistencies between heart-eating and other acts perpetrated by Syrian rebels? Your argument strongly resembles swiss cheese, max.
Re: Eat you heart out..... - Acer - 05-16-2013
I'm not advocating any particular action. I merely point out that both action and inaction have consequences. Staying out looks good on paper, but eventually the trouble finds us, the big target that we are. Going in looks good on paper, but none of the going-in options are without risk, e.g., finding ourselves in league with a heart-eating crackpot.
You said "I think I understand the problem and understand possible solutions, none of which we have the guts nor political willpower we would apply."
What are the solutions? Is "staying out" it?
Re: Eat you heart out..... - max - 05-16-2013
max wrote:
False analogy rj, ....
Try again....
rjmacks wrote:No wonder you believe what you do.
"the majority of opposition forces"?!?!
Al-Nusra is estimated to have, at most, 10,000 members. The Free Syrian Army clocks in at 140K. Can you point to consistencies between heart-eating and other acts perpetrated by Syrian rebels? Your argument strongly resembles swiss cheese, max.
The swiss cheese is the set of numbers you are coming up with.
According to the lat listing by BBC of three weeks ago, your " Free Syrian Army clocks in at 140K" is the 10 thousand, at best.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15798218
analysts believe there may be no more than 10,000.
Of course if you start counting al-Nustra jihadis as some saintly FSA members for the sake of justifying our new Benghazi adventure, why just stop there, might as well count the regular Syrian Army as potential FSA recruits as well. This way you fantasy of 140 thousand FSA members can be finally created....
we are getting reports every day of more and more units of the so called FSA, showing their true colors or going over to al-Nusra and proclaiming themselves full-fledged terrorists, al-Qaeda, disciples, death squads in every sense of the word.
Then what is left of your FSA defectors is still defecting to al Nusra...
Free Syrian Army rebels defect to Islamist group Jabhat al-Nusrahttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/08/free-syrian-army-rebels-defect-islamist-group
The well-resourced organisation, which is linked to al-Qaida, is luring many anti-Assad fighters away, say brigade commanders...
Evidence of the growing strength of al-Nusra, gathered from Guardian interviews with FSA commanders across Syria, ...
Illustrating their plight, FSA commanders say that entire units have gone over to al-Nusra while others have lost a quarter or more of their strength to them recently.
Enjoy your cheese....
Re: Eat you heart out..... - max - 05-17-2013
Acer wrote:
I'm not advocating any particular action. I merely point out that both action and inaction have consequences. Staying out looks good on paper, but eventually the trouble finds us, the big target that we are. Going in looks good on paper, but none of the going-in options are without risk, e.g., finding ourselves in league with a heart-eating crackpot.
So Benghazi taught us nothing?....
Re: Eat you heart out..... - SteveG - 05-17-2013
max wrote:Yeah, not to try to use Benghazi to make sleazy partisan political points.
So Benghazi taught us nothing?....