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+--- Thread: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel (/showthread.php?tid=257092)
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel - RAMd®d - 06-15-2021
That places a low value on human life.
Exactly, extremely low.
Hard to tell these days.
Indeed.
I may be an outlier, but the use of lethal force on an apparent non-violent suspect/criminal is abhorrent.
I grew up in a era where 'as long as you drag him inside' was actual advice from police for citizens shooting fleeing burglary suspects!
Killing someone, or risking killing someone, i.e. using lethal force for stealing stuff isn't, or shouldn't be acceptable to anyone.
Unfortunately, it still is, in too many places and relocating a suspect into one's home isn't even necessary.
I'm reminded of an incident in TX where a young Japanese exchange student was killed trying to attend a Halloween party.
He was apparently dropped off at the wrong address, and spotted at the end of the driveway by the owner.
The owner apparently thought the camera in the kid's hand was a gun and told his wife to 'get the gun'.
Not call the police (I don't remember if 9-1-1 was around at the time) but 'git the gun, Martha!'
[Ok, I editorialized that time]
The gun was a scoped revolver he used for hunting, a .44Mag if I recall correctly.
He killed the kid and wasn't charged, so many things wrong with that.
This is not an indictment of TX; this happens in plenty of other states, without redress.
There's nothing OK about using lethal force 'to wound' someone– nothing.
It should be used to defend life, not property.
When someone shoots a thief in the leg(s) and hits the femoral artery and kills or maims him, 'I was just trying to stop him' isn't good enough.
I understand that for a second someone might think 'he deserved that', but that has to pass, and very quickly.
But it can't affect action taken.
And if lethal force is justified, then the duty of the user is to stop the threat.
That is what preserves the safety of one's self or others.
Half-measures that result in innocent people being injured or killed is unacceptable.
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel - kj - 06-16-2021
Todd's keyboard wrote:
[quote=Rolando]
In Texas, you can shoot some one for stealing your car. Dragging the perp...yeah that's hate. (snip)
In an operant-conditioning sense, I suppose shooting someone in the leg while that person is in the act of stealing would be considered negative reinforcement. (An uncomfortable environment exists while the behavior manifests. As soon as the behavior stops, the environment changes to no longer be uncomfortable. Annoying sounds made until a seat belt is fastened is another example of negative reinforcement.)
Dragging someone who is no longer actively stealing would be considered punishment.
From many miles (and another country) away, I'm curious if the judicial system will view it in these terms.
Todd's Skinner-board
Shooting someone (aversive stimulus) that decreases target behavior (stealing) is punishment. Beeping (aversive stimulus) that increases probability of behavior (fastening belt) is negative reinforcement, so you are correct with that one. Dragging someone (aversive stim) that results in a decrease in behavior (stealing) is punishment. Reinforcement results in increased behavior, punishment decrease. Not that anyone actually cares ;-)
Death decreases the probability of the target behavior occurring, but doesn't count :-)
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel - DeusxMac - 06-16-2021
kj wrote:
Deathdecreaseseliminates the probability of the target behavior occurring, but doesn't count :-)
:devil:
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel - kj - 06-16-2021
DeusxMac wrote:
[quote=kj]
Deathdecreaseseliminates the probability of the target behavior occurring, but doesn't count :-)
:devil:
That might be why it doesn't count. It's no longer a matter of probability. It's a certainty.
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel - davester - 06-16-2021
RAMd®d wrote:
I may be an outlier, but the use of lethal force on an apparent non-violent suspect/criminal is abhorrent.
I grew up in a era where 'as long as you drag him inside' was actual advice from police for citizens shooting fleeing burglary suspects!
Killing someone, or risking killing someone, i.e. using lethal force for stealing stuff isn't, or shouldn't be acceptable to anyone.
Nope, you're not an outlier. I find some of the posts in this thread pretty disgusting. There is no reason to harm another person just because of some stuff. Humiliate them, arrest them, destroy their stuff, sure.
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel - S. Pupp - 06-16-2021
Wow. If Jean Valjean had stolen a loaf of bread in the US instead of France, Les Miserables would have been one very short story.
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel - cbelt3 - 06-16-2021
I really don't agree with the shooter.
The only time I have EVER pointed a 'gun' at someone was when they were trying to steal my car. And it wasn't a real gun, because I had set the magazine for my match .22 far away from the pistol. So I used a fake dart pistol and screamed the Dirty Harry speech "Do you feel lucky, punk !" at the young man. Who screamed and ran.
Now if I had caught him when he came back the next night and firebombed the building, in retaliation, I might have actually fired on him.
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel - Buzz - 06-16-2021
Just last week in our 'hood...
Fortunately the neighbors had a heavier duty gate into their property, a few feet inside the alley facade (where the camera is), and that inner gate was/is secured by an industrial U-lock that stymied the crooks.
FYI: Link is to series of motion sensor activated ~35 second clips of video camera footage showing perp w/ bolt cutters, and accomplice, cutting a padlock while trying to break into a house (a few blocks from here) just after midnight 8 days ago.
==
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel - mrbigstuff - 06-16-2021
Buzz, I'm digging his getaway shoes.
What is amazing to me is that more criminals are not taking advantage of our times and wearing a nicely covering mask.
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel - Bill in NC - 06-17-2021
Buzz wrote:
Shooting the perp while actively stealing the part = OK
Dragging the perp after shooting and binding = not so OK
Cat converter on my ancient Buick Regal was stolen way back when. Pissed me off big time. Didn't catch the perp in the act, so no shots fired. Found a guy, that knew a guy, that "repaired" the missing cat situation by piping a piece of exhaust pipe straight thru an empty cat shell to the muffler. Buick actually ran better after that, and managed to pass its smog inspections until it was t-boned by an old-ish Jaguar with an uninsured driver, which rendered the frame bent and irreparable.
These days I don't think a bypassed cat would pass inspection, and they're probably pricier than 40 years ago, and way pricier to fix than back then. I'd be OK with shooting the perp in his legs today, if caught in the act, so that he couldn't get away until the cops, and ambulance came for him. The Washington article said that that perp did try to get away after being shot. Dragging him behind a F-150 was a bit much.
==
Unlike California, in most states there's no visual inspection during emissions testing...just plug in & rely on results reported by the internal computer.
So if someone stole the cat off my vehicle I'd also do the above...plus add a "spacer" to every downstream oxygen sensor to ensure no codes would be set.