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+--- Thread: Salon: McCain lies about his support of clean energy (/showthread.php?tid=62537)
Re: Salon: McCain lies about his support of clean energy - Black Landlord - 09-20-2008
I would suggest having a lawyer stop by the senate's HR department and pick up a copy of the sick day policy for review, before taking that step.
As someone with a fair amount of insight into the nuts and bolts of living with chronic pain, I would reserve judgement on McCain's absences in lieu of more specific information as to the cause.
billb wrote:
Let's fire the top ten offenders.
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/senate/vote-missers/
Oh wait, we'd have a woman for President.
Can't have that [/sexist sarcasm]
Edit: If you don't like the Washington Post, you can always go to the source, but it has been getting hammered lately, probably by fact checkers.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=400629&tab=votes
Re: Salon: McCain lies about his support of clean energy - MacMagus - 09-20-2008
Black Landlord wrote:
As someone with a fair amount of insight into the nuts and bolts of living with chronic pain, I would reserve judgement on McCain's absences in lieu of more specific information as to the cause.
If his pain is so debilitating that he can't perform his current job, why should we trust the man to perform as the executive?
Re: Salon: McCain lies about his support of clean energy - Black Landlord - 09-20-2008
MacMagus wrote:
[quote=Black Landlord]
As someone with a fair amount of insight into the nuts and bolts of living with chronic pain, I would reserve judgement on McCain's absences in lieu of more specific information as to the cause.
If his pain is so debilitating that he can't perform his current job, why should we trust the man to perform as the executive?
I want to live in a word in which a chronic pain sufferer is not limited in the career options available to them.
To answer your question, I don't think it's fair to compare the demands of being president with the demands of being senator-- a president can command anywhere, through his staff. We're talking here about the specific requirement of having to travel to the senate on a given day at a given time, and having to spend hours there to cast a vote.
If there are things I don't understand about that, please set me straight.
Re: Salon: McCain lies about his support of clean energy - OWC Jamie - 09-20-2008
Apparently I didn't read the second sentence of your post. Must have missed that.
<
or wasn't anyone supposed to actually just do that.
Re: Salon: McCain lies about his support of clean energy - Black Landlord - 09-20-2008
billb wrote:
Apparently I didn't read the second sentence of your post. Must have missed that.
<All you have to do is look at his voting record. >>
or wasn't anyone supposed to actually just do that.
I know you've been wanting to overcome your nervousness about starting your own topics, billb.
This seems like a perfect opportunity, wouldn't you say?
So, go ahead, call it "McCain's voting record" or "candidates voting records" or "Let's fire the top ten on this list."
I'l back ya up . . .
Re: Salon: McCain lies about his support of clean energy - Wags - 09-20-2008
billb wrote:
Apparently I didn't read the second sentence of your post. Must have missed that.
<All you have to do is look at his voting record. >>
or wasn't anyone supposed to actually just do that.
From the article, don't bother to actually read it:
As for McCain's "long record of that support of alternate energy," consider the votes on renewable energy funding and a federal "renewable portfolio standard" (RPS) that he did show up for this decade:
# Tax credits for clean energy R&D (2001)
# Require a 20 percent RPS where utilities buy 20 percent clean energy ('02)
# Reduce 20 percent RPS requirement ('02)
# Waive 20 percent RPS if utilities balk ('02)
# Increase clean energy R&D funding ('05)
# Clean energy incentives ('05)
# An RPS to require utilities [to] buy some clean energy ('05)
# Tax oil companies windfall profits to fund clean energy ('05)
In every case, McCain voted against renewables, as did Sen. "Global warming is 'the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people'" Inhofe. On the Energy Policy Act of 2005, the biggest congressional effort to push alternative energy in more than a decade, McCain voted against it along with just 11 other senators. Even Inhofe voted for it.
You seem to be trying to justify his record on voting against every clean air piece of legislation in the last 10 years or so, then claiming to support it, with some sort of argument that all the others have poor voting records so that must cancel the actual votes he did cast. OK.... The title and main focus of the article is lying about his support, or lack thereof, of clean air/renewable energy policy. Not how often he and his colleagues don't bother to show to do their job (seems like he was number one on your list, however).
Re: Salon: McCain lies about his support of clean energy - Black Landlord - 09-20-2008
Hard to tell exactly how they're measuring EROEI--there is much more to solar systems than the panels themselves. Are they taking production, maintenance, and disposal of all the other components into account?
How deep should the probing in the supply chain of the tools being used to generate energy go? For example, if steel is being used to drill for oil or construct a nuclear power plant, should the energy input of the steel be taken into account, should the energy input into building the factory being used to construct the steel be taken into account and amortized? Should the energy input of the roads which are used to ferry the goods be taken into account? What about the energy used to cook the steelworker's breakfasts? These are complex questions evading simple answers. A full accounting would require considerations of opportunity costs and comparing total energy expenditures in the presence and absence of this economic activity.
davester wrote:
[quote=Black Landlord]
...the unfortunate reality is that the technology to harness the sun's energy is not up to the job-- the energy and resources needed to create solar panels result in a negligible payoff presently, to the point that solar power could barely even be called "clean".
That is not correct. Only if the energy payback exceeds 20 to 30 years (typical warranteed lifetime of a photovoltaic panel...actual lifetimes are much greater) can a photovoltaic technology be considered "nonrenewable". A decade ago the energy payback period for a photovoltaic panel was 10 years...a long time, but still very much on the plus side of the nonrenewable/renewable equation. The energy payback period for new crystalline panels is typically better than 3 years and for thin film panels it is typically less than 1 year.
...and this doesn't even consider the fact that there are other technologies (i.e. various solar thermal technologies) that are more efficient than photovoltaic.
This info can be gotten from many places. Here's one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photovoltaics#Energy_Payback_Time_and_Energy_Returned_on_Energy_Invested
Re: Salon: McCain lies about his support of clean energy - MacMagus - 09-20-2008
> I want to live in a word in which a chronic pain sufferer is
> not limited in the career options... a president can
> command anywhere, through his staff.
Unfortunately, if it promotes absenteeism and ruins his ability to concentrate or remember key facts there are certain jobs the man simply isn't qualified for.
One of those jobs is president of the United States.
When that world-shaking call comes at 3am, I don't want some flunky answering because the boss is popping pills and sweating out his pain on the john. I want the boss ready and able to deal with it. That's why he's paid the big bucks.
Re: Salon: McCain lies about his support of clean energy - Black Landlord - 09-20-2008
You don't understand chronic pain, then.
Sitting still for long periods can be torture, but when something happens to demand absolute concentration, the pain is pushed away.
Re: Salon: McCain lies about his support of clean energy - MacMagus - 09-20-2008
> Sitting still for long periods can be torture, but when something
> happens to demand absolute concentration, the pain is pushed
> away.
You know for a fact that John McCain's job performance has not been impacted by chronic pain?
Yet you insist that accommodations be made for that pain... "I think senators deserve sick days like everyone else. "
Make up your mind. Either he works through the pain or he doesn't.