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+--- Thread: Presidential pardons (/showthread.php?tid=66933)
Re: Presidential pardons - vision63 - 11-25-2008
Unless you examine the cases, who's to say it doesn't make sense? This is how people become improperly convicted, assuming that they're guilty. May or may not be. Death rows are overflowing and will continue to be. We should start killing check kiters to ensure that they don't re-offend. What's the diff? Killing is killing and it's always wrong unless it's in self-defense.
Re: Presidential pardons - OWC Jamie - 11-25-2008
I still don't think Nixon, draft dodgers and Libby rotting in jail served a purpose.
some of the Bush and Clinton pardons seem a bit abusive of power.
Your Justice Commision ( insert correct name) can do the same no ? [let some one out of jai that is not a threat to society, after review]
Re: Presidential pardons - Acer - 11-25-2008
He only pardons a handful of the thousands who apply, and he's not freeing mass murderers. It's typically white-collar crimes or those that have a political dimension. Sometimes it's a "friend" who probably ought to have been left in, but that's the price, I guess.
I think it's a good idea to have somewhere to go to plead your case one last time, especially where the law demands a certain verdict that may be too harsh when looking at the particulars of the individual case.
Re: Presidential pardons - Gutenberg - 11-25-2008
When did Nixon ever rot in jail, billb? For that matter, when did Nixon ever go to trial for his crimes? Ford pardoned him before charges were ever made.
Re: Presidential pardons - Gutenberg - 11-25-2008
Separation of powers and our system of checks and balances between the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government. For instance, Congress may pass a law and the President may sign it, but the Supreme Court has trumping power in that it can declare the law unconstitutional and therefore void.
In this case, the executive trumps the judicial branch. Generally the privilege is used sparingly and responsibly. It's the quadrennial New Year's Eve orgy of political pardons that gets interesting, as the outgoing President proffers prophylactic pardons to his posse. It's an interesting way to find out the misdeeds the press missed during the term.
voodoopenguin wrote:
Miscarriage of justice reparation is one thing but pardoning and setting someone free, who was properly convicted and sentenced, by a single person where the power is absolute and cannot be over-ruled does not sound like sense. Back in history our monarch had that power but to have it in the modern USA, which prides itself on the upholding of democracy and accountability, seems strange to me.
The royal pardon can only be used in consultation with those with more expertise. Likewise theoretically the monarch can over rule Parliament however since our Civil War of over 350 years ago that right has been tempered with the understanding that if it was used arbitrarily then Parliament would act swiftly to remove all rights. It could be the beginning of the end of monarchy. In other words, you have the right Mrs.Windsor but if you use it we will take it away from you.
Re: Presidential pardons - OWC Jamie - 11-25-2008
draft dodgers in Canada weren't exactly rotting in jail either.
take a marker and on your screen put parenthesis around "Libby rotting in jail" if it confuses you less.
Re: Presidential pardons - Doc - 11-25-2008
I looked into this awhile back. There is supposedly a limitation on the pardon-powers.
As I recall, the founding fathers intended that the president could not pardon himself and he could not pardon a conspirator who worked with him to undermine the Constitution, subject to impeachment.
It's not in the Constitution, but it's in the notes from the Constitutional Convention and Madison's writings also listed them as some of the few cases where an impeachment would practically be mandatory.
When Bush commuted Libby's sentence, my thought at the time was that it was very clever because it managed to skirt the issue of pardoning a co-conspirator without quite crossing that line.
Re: Presidential pardons - Gutenberg - 11-25-2008
There were plenty of draft resisters who went to jail, billb, Muhammad Ali among them.
Re: Presidential pardons - samintx - 11-25-2008
I am hoping for a Campos pardon. I cannot understnad why Bush has not stepped in on this one.
Re: Presidential pardons - Racer X - 11-26-2008
mikeylikesit wrote:
... and the occasional execution of someone who was never guilty of the crime charged is just so much collateral damage.
I can assure you that those people murdered be re offenders are a far higher number than those accidentally put to death. Are their lives worth less?