+- MacResource (https://forums.macresource.com)
+-- Forum: My Category (https://forums.macresource.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Tips and Deals (https://forums.macresource.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Thread: Question I couldn't answer about hybrids. (/showthread.php?tid=70155)
Re: Question I couldn't answer about hybrids. - space-time - 01-11-2009
GGD, when you go down-hill from your house, is the battery completely empty? If the battery is let's say 75% charged, then it will quickly charge to 100% before you reach the bottom of the hill and thus there is some energy that could have been stored but it's wasted since the battery is full. would be interesting to see what happens if you leave the house with the battery on a very low charge, let's say 10%, although I am not sure if the computer will ever leave it get that low.
Re: Question I couldn't answer about hybrids. - BigGuynRusty - 01-11-2009
Dakota wrote:Start here, read, learn.:
[quote=BigGuynRusty]
[quote=Dakota]
I am looking for the source of that "extra" energy. So braking is it? If you take away breaking, is it an even trade?
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car.htm
Also, it is "braking", not "breaking".
BGnR
You just can't hide that mean side of yours, can you? What is it? Bringing your frustrations here from the other side? Have I roughed you up that bad? WTF are you talking about??
I gave you a great link to read and learn.
Sorry I corrected your spelling, ignore me please, and continue to show your ignorance.
The only frustrations are your own.
BGnR
Re: Question I couldn't answer about hybrids. - GGD - 01-11-2009
space-time wrote:
GGD, when you go down-hill from your house, is the battery completely empty? If the battery is let's say 75% charged, then it will quickly charge to 100% before you reach the bottom of the hill and thus there is some energy that could have been stored but it's wasted since the battery is full. would be interesting to see what happens if you leave the house with the battery on a very low charge, let's say 10%, although I am not sure if the computer will ever leave it get that low.
It depends on which route I take, there are two ways down/up in different directions. One is steep and winding most of the way, the other is very steep near my house, and a more gradual slope with few turns the rest of the way.
When I drive home the first route, the gas engine needs to run most of the way due to the slope of the hills, so it's charging the battery as a side effect, so the battery will be about half full when we get home.
The second route is better, because electric can be used on the more gradual slope and drain down the battery instead of burning gas, and gas will get used just on that last very steep section (about 1/4 mile), and the battery will be much closer to empty when we get home.
I usually plan my errands so that I make a big circle, going down the first route, making stops along the relatively flat road in town that connects the two routes, and coming home on the second route, so that the battery will be as empty as possible for the next trip. I can get about 46 MPG for the trip that way.
Given my location, I'm not sure a plug-in hybrid will be much benefit unless the battery is a lot bigger, and there is a way to charge it to some fixed level that is below full, so that my trip down the hill can charge it the rest of the way.
Re: Question I couldn't answer about hybrids. - Mac1337 - 01-12-2009
BigGuynRusty wrote:Start here, read, learn.:
[quote=Dakota]
[quote=BigGuynRusty]
[quote=Dakota]
I am looking for the source of that "extra" energy. So braking is it? If you take away breaking, is it an even trade?
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car.htm
Also, it is "braking", not "breaking".
BGnR
You just can't hide that mean side of yours, can you? What is it? Bringing your frustrations here from the other side? Have I roughed you up that bad? WTF are you talking about??
I gave you a great link to read and learn.
Sorry I corrected your spelling, ignore me please, and continue to show your ignorance.
The only frustrations are your own.
BGnR
Excuse me gentlemen for interrupting this fine technical discourse, but I have to...
This is not the first time you are tangling with me. I don't need your condescending "read, learn" tone and certainly don't need you constantly correcting my spelling. I don't send my writings to a literary agent before posting them here. I don't care if it has typos or if it follows King's English. And if I wanted to read links to "read and learn" I would google them myself. The first hand experience of likes of GGD's posts is what I am after.
Re: Question I couldn't answer about hybrids. - Black Landlord - 01-12-2009
BigGuynRusty wrote:Start here, read, learn.:
[quote=Dakota]
I am looking for the source of that "extra" energy. So braking is it? If you take away breaking, is it an even trade?
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car.htm
Also, it is "braking", not "breaking".
BGnR
Good links, thanks.
Does anyone know how the actual 'motor engine braking' works? Is there some sort of a clutch that engages the electric motor during braking?
None of the info is very specific about that.
I think the kid is on the right track in questioning whether hybrid cars are really much of an improvement over traditional ones.
Re: Question I couldn't answer about hybrids. - Mac1337 - 01-12-2009
Black Landlord wrote:Start here, read, learn.:
[quote=BigGuynRusty]
[quote=Dakota]
I am looking for the source of that "extra" energy. So braking is it? If you take away breaking, is it an even trade?
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car.htm
Also, it is "braking", not "breaking".
BGnR
Good links, thanks.
Does anyone know how the actual 'motor engine braking' works? Is there some sort of a clutch that engages the electric motor during braking?
None of the info is very specific about that.
I think the kid is on the right track in questioning whether hybrid cars are really much of an improvement over traditional ones.
The reason I sometimes have trouble understanding alternative energy is that any alternative energy comes from another source of energy. How can you end up with more energy? I do understand downhill driving and braking as those external sources. I guess eliminating idling helps too. I was surprised that the city and highway mileage for Prius are so close. I thought it shines in city driving.
Re: Question I couldn't answer about hybrids. - Speedy - 01-12-2009
Also let your son know that if the hybrid used a Diesel engine rather than a gas engine it would get more than 40% better mileage.
Re: Question I couldn't answer about hybrids. - GGD - 01-12-2009
Black Landlord wrote:Start here, read, learn.:
[quote=BigGuynRusty]
[quote=Dakota]
I am looking for the source of that "extra" energy. So braking is it? If you take away breaking, is it an even trade?
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car.htm
Also, it is "braking", not "breaking".
BGnR
Good links, thanks.
Does anyone know how the actual 'motor engine braking' works? Is there some sort of a clutch that engages the electric motor during braking?
None of the info is very specific about that.
I think the kid is on the right track in questioning whether hybrid cars are really much of an improvement over traditional ones.
Here's a site that has a very good explaination of how the Prius hybrid system works, download the PDF files from this page and the other 3 pages that it has links to (power split device), and plan to spend some time reading.
http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-energy.htm
http://john1701a.com/prius/documents/Prius_Energy-Flow.pdf
http://john1701a.com/prius/documents/Prius_Power-Split-Device.pdf
http://john1701a.com/prius/documents/Prius_Power-Split-Device_details.pdf
Re: Question I couldn't answer about hybrids. - Carnos Jax - 01-12-2009
Dakota wrote:Start here, read, learn.:
[quote=Black Landlord]
[quote=BigGuynRusty]
[quote=Dakota]
I am looking for the source of that "extra" energy. So braking is it? If you take away breaking, is it an even trade?
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car.htm
Also, it is "braking", not "breaking".
BGnR
Good links, thanks.
Does anyone know how the actual 'motor engine braking' works? Is there some sort of a clutch that engages the electric motor during braking?
None of the info is very specific about that.
I think the kid is on the right track in questioning whether hybrid cars are really much of an improvement over traditional ones.
The reason I sometimes have trouble understanding alternative energy is that any alternative energy comes from another source of energy. How can you end up with more energy? I do understand downhill driving and braking as those external sources. I guess eliminating idling helps too. I was surprised that the city and highway mileage for Prius are so close. I thought it shines in city driving.
The key Dakota is the efficiency of various energy conservation processes. Basically, burning 'oil' (gasoline) in a piston engine designed to meet the varying power requirements of a car is several times more inefficient than taking that same oil, burning it at a power plant and converting it to electricity to store in a battery to drive a car.
Re: Question I couldn't answer about hybrids. - Black Landlord - 01-12-2009
Dakota wrote:Start here, read, learn.:
[quote=Black Landlord]
[quote=BigGuynRusty]
[quote=Dakota]
I am looking for the source of that "extra" energy. So braking is it? If you take away breaking, is it an even trade?
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car.htm
Also, it is "braking", not "breaking".
BGnR
Good links, thanks.
Does anyone know how the actual 'motor engine braking' works? Is there some sort of a clutch that engages the electric motor during braking?
None of the info is very specific about that.
I think the kid is on the right track in questioning whether hybrid cars are really much of an improvement over traditional ones.
The reason I sometimes have trouble understanding alternative energy is that any alternative energy comes from another source of energy. How can you end up with more energy? I do understand downhill driving and braking as those external sources. I guess eliminating idling helps too. I was surprised that the city and highway mileage for Prius are so close. I thought it shines in city driving.
That I can agree with you on 100%.
About the best you can hope for is a net reduction in inefficiency relative to some other design.