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+--- Thread: So..Obama, health care and Catholics. Did he blow it? (/showthread.php?tid=131632)
Re: So..Obama, health care and Catholics. Did he blow it? - hal - 02-07-2012
Does my employer (the catholic church) have a right to deny me health services because of THEIR morality?
What if my employer had a problem with antibiotics since they thwart the will of god?
Re: So..Obama, health care and Catholics. Did he blow it? - Gutenberg - 02-07-2012
Bingo Hal. Exactly. The individual right trumps the group.
Re: So..Obama, health care and Catholics. Did he blow it? - cbelt3 - 02-07-2012
$tevie-
"In what sense is the Church "paying" for these services? Do the premiums actually go down or something if they aren't "participating"?"
Yes. Theoretically their insurance premiums would drop slightly.
hal-
That's the argument. Can government compel a religious organization to provide services that they find unethical or anathema ? As a theoretical employee, you *might* be subject to your employer's own beliefs, regardless of your personal beliefs. Many churches require their paid employees to sign agreements to that effect.
Re: So..Obama, health care and Catholics. Did he blow it? - August West - 02-07-2012
Yes. Theoretically their insurance premiums would drop slightly.
This is not what I have heard. I heard that they would actually rise slightly, because the treatments not covered lead to greater expenses in the future. Compare the cost of the pill to the cost of a pregnancy, insurance companies do.
Re: So..Obama, health care and Catholics. Did he blow it? - Grace62 - 02-07-2012
No, he did not blow it.
Let churches be in the church business.
Preach to women on Sunday mornings that you think birth control is evil. See if they follow you or not (Hint - most American Catholic women do not follow the church teaching on this. )
Let health insurers do their thing, as is the law of the land.
Nobody is forcing any Catholic woman to use any contraceptive product, she can follow her conscience like any other woman. An inconvenient truth for the Bishops.
Revisit the battle that Ireland went through regarding contraception, which did not become freely available and advertised until 1992, and was outlawed completely until 1980. And we're not that many decades removed from the days when only married women in the US could get birth control legally.
People who are defending the church on this should be careful what they wish for.
Re: So..Obama, health care and Catholics. Did he blow it? - cbelt3 - 02-07-2012
August West wrote:
Yes. Theoretically their insurance premiums would drop slightly.
This is not what I have heard. I heard that they would actually rise slightly, because the treatments not covered lead to greater expenses in the future. Compare the cost of the pill to the cost of a pregnancy, insurance companies do.
Derp... good point. I expect you are correct.
Re: So..Obama, health care and Catholics. Did he blow it? - August West - 02-07-2012
I'm just not getting the "it's against their ethics, so they don't have to pay for it" approach. It seems that suddenly, there is a special case. Don't these large religious institutions, i.e. hosptials and such, have to pay taxes that support killing? Isn't there an ethical stance against killing? Why do these institutions pay anything to the government? I'd appreciate a rational explanation.
Re: So..Obama, health care and Catholics. Did he blow it? - $tevie - 02-07-2012
Religious hospitals don't pay taxes. They are run as non-profits.
Re: So..Obama, health care and Catholics. Did he blow it? - beagledave - 02-07-2012
August West wrote:
I'm just not getting the "it's against their ethics, so they don't have to pay for it" approach. It seems that suddenly, there is a special case. Don't these large religious institutions, i.e. hosptials and such, have to pay taxes that support killing? Isn't there an ethical stance against killing? Why do these institutions pay anything to the government? I'd appreciate a rational explanation.
Ummm you are aware that Catholic hospitals (and other NFP hospitals) and other institutions are tax exempt, right?
They DON'T pay anything to the gubmint.
Re: So..Obama, health care and Catholics. Did he blow it? - davester - 02-07-2012
Grace62 wrote:
No, he did not blow it.
Let churches be in the church business.
Exactly. Just because the catholic church wants to be involved in the health care business does not mean that they get to impose their will upon their employees. Running a health care organization or hospital is NOT a religious function.
Hey, I find the wholesale circumcision of infants to be quite objectionable and of no health benefit whatsoever, but I don't demand that my insurance company or the hospitals I use not offer that service to those who believe it is a necessary part of their religious faith.
I'll further add that the catholic church is not in a good position to dictate what is moral and what is not.