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+--- Thread: Go home and get your affairs in order *(:>* (/showthread.php?tid=131673)
Re: Go home and get your affairs in order *(:>* - Grace62 - 02-08-2012
cbelt3 wrote:
Yep, All friends there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel
What's your point? No new news in there. Lots of propaganda though.
Re: Go home and get your affairs in order *(:>* - cbelt3 - 02-08-2012
OK, I can't convince you, you can't convince me. That's OK.
I fervently hope that Iran allows things to calm down. Doesn't mean I think we should back off.
Having a cop on the beat when your neighbor is screaming crazy stuff out the window at 2 AM is certainly.... comforting.
Re: Go home and get your affairs in order *(:>* - Ted King - 02-08-2012
Grace62 wrote:
[quote=Ted King]
[quote=Grace62]
Can anyone give concrete reasons that Iran should not be allowed to develop a nuclear energy program?
Do you believe Iran is not actively trying to develop a nuclear weapon?
I require evidence, it shouldn't be about anyone's "belief." To date there is no good evidence. I'll wait for the inspector's report, since they just went there.
I actually read the IAEA report. It's true that they never come to the direct conclusion that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, but there is quite a litany of evidence that it is; e.g., researching detonation devices that are highly unlikely to be used for anything else, way more centrifuges than they would need to make non-weapons grade nuclear material. In the conclusion of the report they say this:
While the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared nuclear material at the nuclear facilities and LOFs declared by Iran under its Safeguards Agreement, as Iran is not providing the necessary cooperation, including by not implementing its Additional Protocol, the Agency is unable to provide credible assurance about the absence of undeclared nuclear material and activities in Iran, and therefore to conclude that all nuclear material in Iran is in peaceful activities.
IOW, the very outfit that is the only one likely to be able to provide concrete evidence that Iran is or is not engaged in developing nuclear weapons is not being given access to the information they need. IOW, the first concrete evidence we are likely to get that they have a nuclear weapons program is when they do a test explosion.
But the real kicker for me isn't mentioned in the IAEA report - that is that Iran was offered to be provided, from other countries, with all the non-weapons grade nuclear material they would need to for peaceful nuclear power and they refused.
Re: Go home and get your affairs in order *(:>* - Grace62 - 02-08-2012
Prove to us that you've stopped beating your wife!
It's tough to prove a negative. I'll wait for the reports.
As for the detonation devices, that is addressed in the link I gave above, along with other concerns about how the IAEA report has been misrepresented in American media.
Re: Go home and get your affairs in order *(:>* - Ted King - 02-08-2012
Grace62 wrote:
Prove to us that you've stopped beating your wife!
I did not present a loaded question, I presented circumstantial evidence.
Grace62 wrote: As for the detonation devices, that is addressed in the link I gave above, along with other concerns about how the IAEA report has been misrepresented in American media.
I didn't reference anything from the American media.
Here's what the report says:
The Agency recognizes that there exist non-nuclear applications, albeit few, for detonators like EBWs, and of equipment suitable for firing multiple detonators with a high level of simultaneity. Notwithstanding, given their possible application in a nuclear explosive device, and the fact that there are limited civilian and conventional military applications for such technology, Iran’s development of such detonators and equipment is a matter of concern, particularly in connection with the possible use of the multipoint initiation system referred to below.
People get convicted of crimes routinely based on circumstantial evidence. That's not proving a negative or a matter of loading the question. It's good ol' inductive reasoning - you get enough pieces of evidence pointing toward something being likely to be the case and you conclude it is the case.
Obviously you don't think there is enough evidence to come to the inductive conclusion that Iran has an active nuclear weapons program. I disagree.
Re: Go home and get your affairs in order *(:>* - cbelt3 - 02-08-2012
I personally witnessed parts of the development of nuclear weapons and long range missiles by India and Pakistan in the 1980's. Saw it happening, made appropriate warnings.
I'm tired of hand-wringing naivete. I am convinced, based on what I've read and listened to, that Iran is building nukes. They won't stop until they have a number that significantly exceeds Israel's arsenal.
You can quote Iranian and US collaborator propaganda all you want. I fully expect that certain individuals would not believe Iran's intentions until they are experiencing the prompt gamma pulse from the detonation of a warhead. By then it's too late.
Re: Go home and get your affairs in order *(:>* - Grace62 - 02-08-2012
cbelt, I know you still want to believe there were WMD's in Iraq too.
http://forums.macresource.com/read.php?2,1237490,1237490#msg-1237490
I would prefer evidence over inflammatory hot talk between parties that don't get along.
I don't think we need to wish violence on others or call them naive because they disagree and prefer to see evidence, and because they see a pattern of propaganda in American news reports that very much echoes what happened in 2003.
I see no evidence that Iran wants to attack another country.
I'll ask again. What is the last country they attacked, as the aggressor, and when did that happen?
And what would be the geopolitical benefit to Iran of attacking, say , Israel?
Re: Go home and get your affairs in order *(:>* - Carnos Jax - 02-08-2012
cbelt3 wrote: ...experiencing the prompt gamma pulse from the detonation of a warhead. By then it's too late.
Even if they had nuclear weapons, why do you think they would use it for anything other than deterrence?
Re: Go home and get your affairs in order *(:>* - Lux Interior - 02-08-2012
cbelt3 wrote:
I'm tired of hand-wringing naivete. I am convinced, based on what I've read and listened to, that Iran is building nukes.
This is the same crap that led us to war with Iraq.
"They are an imminent threat!"
Re: Go home and get your affairs in order *(:>* - Bill in NC - 02-09-2012
They are the ultimate 'anti-invasion' weapon.
Would even the U.S. risk a crude, say 10kT detonation in the midst of their forces (land or sea)?
Carnos Jax wrote:
[quote=cbelt3]...experiencing the prompt gamma pulse from the detonation of a warhead. By then it's too late.
Even if they had nuclear weapons, why do you think they would use it for anything other than deterrence?