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+--- Thread: PSA: Check Engine Light Madness (/showthread.php?tid=149610)
Re: PSA: Check Engine Light Madness - Chakravartin - 03-07-2013
Mike Johnson wrote:
This is one of those things everybody assumes is true, but nobody can actually point to the law in question. I'm sure the law they're afraid of breaking is not about ODB scanners, but about being an unlicensed and unregistered emissions repair shop. They can lend you a scanner. What they can't do is tell you how to fix the problem and then sell you the parts, because then when they're wrong, the customer's path to recourse is all messed up.
If you walk into a (legit) California auto-parts store and ask to borrow a scanner, they will tell you that it's illegal for them to lend them out or rent them. You can find a lot of posts indicating that this is the case in both California and Hawaii because of state laws.
https://duckduckgo.com/html/
'Seems to have started around 2008.
As for not being able to point to the exact statute, get me a Westlaw account and I'll see what I can do.
Re: PSA: Check Engine Light Madness - Don C - 03-07-2013
I was driving 225 miles to Columbus, Ohio a few years ago in my 1999 BMW Z3 convertible when the CEL came on. Temperatures were in the single digits. I had significant concern about a breakdown in those temperatures since many of the miles in Ohio and in Kentucky are a long way from civilization. A repair shop convinced me that I need not be too worried and in fact I did get there and back home with the light on but no other problems. As far as I remember, the problem was not serious, but I bought a code reader right after that!
Re: PSA: Check Engine Light Madness - Mike Johnson - 03-07-2013
Oh, my mistake. I didn't realize that sticking a sign on the counter at Pep Boys counted as the legislative process in California.
Re: PSA: Check Engine Light Madness - davester - 03-07-2013
Markintosh wrote:
In California, auto parts stores are no longer allowed to loan or rent code readers...
I think you've been misinformed. I believe that auto parts store lawyers (in California and elsewhere) have stopped them from lending/renting code readers due to perceived liability issues.
Re: PSA: Check Engine Light Madness - RAMd®d - 03-07-2013
As for not being able to point to the exact statute
This is what makes me question CA getting the blame for this.
Agreed that it seems to have started in '08. But nothing I find online shows any source but customers saying AutoZone staff told them it's "illegal". It well may be, but I can't find anything online that supports it.
What apparently has passed as support are Henny Penny shouts of "It's the Republik of Kalifornia" and that seems to be good enough for a lot of people. But if this were the result of legislative action around four, even five years ago, there'd be some trace on the Internet that even weak Google-Fu could find.
The 'net seems full of "AutoZone banned from reading trouble codes" links, but little or nothing about any other car chains in CA.
I'd sure like to see the exact source of this.
Re: PSA: Check Engine Light Madness - Markintosh - 03-07-2013
Well we can argue all day about whether or not it is a law, statute, regulation, or lawyerism....but the fact still remains that in California, you really can't go into most auto stores anymore to get codes read or cleared. I am not going to waste my time arguing the case with the captain of the high school football team down at Pep Boys.
Time to buy a reader I suppose...
Re: PSA: Check Engine Light Madness - M A V I C - 03-07-2013
Personally I use this because I bought it when I had a Palm phone: http://www.vadmobile.com/
Chakravartin wrote:
[quote=M A V I C]
[quote=Markintosh]
In California, auto parts stores are no longer allowed to loan or rent code readers...
What the heck is the logic for that?
'Same logic as with any state-sanctioned monopoly put forth under the guise of public safety: Lobbyists give good green.
So what is the "guise" in this case? Acer mentioned it had to do with auto parts stores making things up about the codes. But as others have pointed out, it may not even be actual legislation.
cbelt3 wrote:
Pretty much anyone is not allowed to reset codes without servicing the vehicle. Which is why I have my own reader
Says who? I know lots of people who reset their own codes. When we use our own software to do it, it sets the shop code to all zeros. That makes it pretty obvious if there was ever an audit that a shop didn't reset the code. When shops reset them, it inserts their code.
Re: PSA: Check Engine Light Madness - Chakravartin - 03-07-2013
M A V I C wrote:
So what is the "guise" in this case? Acer mentioned it had to do with auto parts stores making things up about the codes. But as others have pointed out, it may not even be actual legislation.
People point to CCR Title 13, § 1968.5 which covers the subject-matter, but not the specific ban. A lot in that statute is left up to the interpretation of the ARB (Air Resources Board), so it may not be a legislative law, but instead an agency policy which has the force of law under the enabling statute. The latter type of law can be very hard to find without either a great deal of patient and persistent research or the skilled use of a specialized database tool such as Westlaw or Lexis or both.
Lobbyists push such boards every bit as hard or harder than they push legislators. Think about the FCC as an example. Practically pwnd by Comcast and AT&T and only doing anything for the public good when they're embarrassed into it by bad press.
The OBD system is supposed to be part of your emissions system, with no more subtle purpose than verifying that your fuel-injection system is working properly, but it has evolved into a black-box type thing. Plans being pushed for OBDIII include GPS, radios and remote engine-cutoff so that law enforcement can monitor your every move, send you tickets in the mail if any element of your engine falls out of spec and stop your engine from a safe-distance if they decide that the vehicle is unsafe or if they decide to ticket or arrest you in-person.
'Think that's all for your own health and safety?
Re: PSA: Check Engine Light Madness - RAMd®d - 03-08-2013
'Think that's all for your own health and safety?
Well, the ability to stop a fleeing vehicle or to stop one from fleeing and becoming a police pursuit certainly bodes well for the health and safety of those nearby.
I heartily endorse that. Other aspects, though possible, seem more speculative than probable. Onerous, nonetheless.
But I still am not convinced of the actual circumstances that led to Autozone's, et al, restrictions on code readers. It just seems very odd that there's no substantive information online.