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+--- Thread: The unaccounted reason that caused crash that killed actor Paul Walker was tire expiration? (/showthread.php?tid=205323)
Re: The unaccounted reason that caused crash that killed actor Paul Walker was tire expiration? - JoeH - 05-27-2017
Going back to the OP, if the accident investigators had considered the tires a signifiant factor in the crash, they would have included that in their reports. But they did not. So the whole screed on that website is armchair quarterbacking. The tires may have made a minor contribution, but ultimately too high a speed and probably an overconfident driver in a vehicle he had not had much time in were the major contributors to the crash.
Re: The unaccounted reason that caused crash that killed actor Paul Walker was tire expiration? - Buzz - 05-27-2017
Mike Johnson wrote:
Okay, sure. But you know what’s just as dangerous as old tires? The macho “I could take that corner at 90mph while sipping a Venti Latte” BS. Stuff happens, and when it happens while you’re going 90mph, people can die. Thinking you’re immune because you’re a great driver and you bought new tires is a good way to kill somebody.
Tires, actually just the very small patch of tread from them, are your only connection with the ground. At any speed. When anything bad happens, your life is dependent on those little rubber patches. When the "anything bad" that happens IS those little rubber patches, your ability to resolve the situation favorably is irreparably compromised. As long as you have some semblance of control over those little rubber patches, there is hope. Without those little rubber patches, there is only prayer.
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Re: The unaccounted reason that caused crash that killed actor Paul Walker was tire expiration? - chopper - 05-27-2017
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100%.
Re: The unaccounted reason that caused crash that killed actor Paul Walker was tire expiration? - chopper - 05-27-2017
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This place is BETTER than Facebook.
Re: The unaccounted reason that caused crash that killed actor Paul Walker was tire expiration? - Dennis S - 05-27-2017
DRY ROT.
Re: The unaccounted reason that caused crash that killed actor Paul Walker was tire expiration? - Bimwad - 05-27-2017
JoeH wrote:
Going back to the OP, if the accident investigators had considered the tires a signifiant factor in the crash, they would have included that in their reports. But they did not. So the whole screed on that website is armchair quarterbacking. The tires may have made a minor contribution, but ultimately too high a speed and probably an overconfident driver in a vehicle he had not had much time in were the major contributors to the crash.
Poor judgement and/or driver error was the primary cause behind that incident.
Even if the tires were a factor, 90mph in an office park is stupid, and such speed will compound the consequences of any mishaps.
Not exactly sure what point that writer is trying to make, aside from being cognizant of tire aging, but he could have used a better example to make his point. At least it's labeled as opinion.
With regard to the matter of tire age itself, there are no hard and fast rules. Both tire manufacturers and automakers have their own guidelines, and they can vary.
But, the consensus seems to be that from five-to-six years onward, they need to be inspected and monitored, and once they get up to about ten years, they should be replaced, regardless.
space-time wrote:
what I don't understand is why the US Tire Manufacturers oppose having rules and regulations. If the tire was more than 6 years old, consumers would be forced to buy new tires, which means more business for manufacturers. As a reseller, you do not want your stock to expire, but as a manufacturer, you want your product to expire so you get to sell more new stuff.
Again, there are no hard rules relating to age because the correlation between age and performance is not consistent, and hard to quantify. There are too many factors involved to single out age as such a significant determinant, and override another such as condition.
Show me a 50-year old that can finish a marathon, and I'll show you a 30-year old who cannot. Or are you advocating that the Carousel from Logan's Run is a good idea?
On a quantifiable level, there is an effort underway now in Europe to increase the minimum legal tread depth from 1.6mm to 3mm (full depth on a new tire is 8-9.5mm).
Everyone but Michelin has signed on. They disagree, and feel that consumers would be throwing away money by prematurely replacing tires that still have service life in them, and can perform adequately. There could also be an environmental concern, as tire production and disposal have large impacts, as well as the relationship between depth, rolling resistance and fuel efficiency.
Who's right?
Michelin has nothing to lose, and more to gain (like the rest). Even more so because their tires often cost more than their competitors. They are confident in the design and performance of their products. On principle, the basis on their argument is the same as that regarding age; rely on actual performance, not an arbitrary number to set guidelines.
I haven't seen compelling evidence from the other side of the argument, but I haven't looked too hard.
Regardless, whether the regulation is changed or not, there will still be vehicles on the road that do not comply, and the vast majority of the public will remain poorly educated on tires.
Re: The unaccounted reason that caused crash that killed actor Paul Walker was tire expiration? - C(-)ris - 05-27-2017
The safe level of tire tread remaining has more to do with road conditions and tire design than a set height. You couldn't drive here in the winter with either 1.6 or 3mm safely. However, in SoCal either would be fine and you could go down to 1mm in the dry summer. Depending on the tread design and compound you could easily get adequate grip in normal conditions with almost no tread remaining.
Re: The unaccounted reason that caused crash that killed actor Paul Walker was tire expiration? - mrbigstuff - 05-27-2017
Filliam H. Muffman wrote:
I have warned against driving on old tires in tire threads here at least twice.
You should NEVER drive on tires over 6 years old. I would only excuse someone that owns a 60 year old classic and are showing it at a concours. It can be extended a few years if the tires are stored in a dark garage, but you shouldn't be showing off or doing 40 MPH over the speed limit on them.
Says....who? You?
Re: The unaccounted reason that caused crash that killed actor Paul Walker was tire expiration? - DeusxMac - 05-27-2017
Mike Johnson wrote:
Okay, sure. But you know what’s just as dangerous as old tires? The macho “I could take that corner at 90mph while sipping a Venti Latte” BS. Stuff happens, and when it happens while you’re going 90mph, people can die. Thinking you’re immune because you’re a great driver and you bought new tires is a good way to kill somebody.
:agree:
"Roger was a great driver..."
Tires, yes, but even "great" drivers make mistakes. See Gilles Villeneuve and many other professional drivers.
Re: The unaccounted reason that caused crash that killed actor Paul Walker was tire expiration? - Sam3 - 05-29-2017
mrbigstuff wrote:
[quote=Filliam H. Muffman]
I have warned against driving on old tires in tire threads here at least twice.
You should NEVER drive on tires over 6 years old. I would only excuse someone that owns a 60 year old classic and are showing it at a concours. It can be extended a few years if the tires are stored in a dark garage, but you shouldn't be showing off or doing 40 MPH over the speed limit on them.
Says....who? You?
Discount Tire will start warning customers with tires older than 5 years, and WILL NOT install a customer's current tires if they are older than 10 years onto a vehicle.