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+--- Thread: Those jobs aren't coming back-Now he tells us (/showthread.php?tid=75227)
Re: Those jobs aren't coming back-Now he tells us - Mac1337 - 03-29-2009
davester wrote:
Who is "giving away jobs"? Politicians are not in control of this. In our capitalist system, unless there is specific regulation to protect jobs (something that the repubs are completely against), the jobs will go where the low cost labor is. The only way to bring jobs back that have left for economic reasons is to either: 1) lower wages/benefits; 2) install protectionist tariffs or negotiate tit-for-tat trade restrictions with other countries (these are highly anti-conservative policies and can cause a lot of collateral economic damage also). If that is unfeasible then it is necessary to look for opportunities to create jobs that are more economically suited to our own economy.
Never thought it would be that easy to make a Republican out of a life long Democrat. Admiring the capitalist system, sending jobs to where costs are low and advocating lower wages. Now, if Obama came out tomorrow and started bashing businesses who send Jobs overseas the davester and stevie crowd would quickly fall in line and start attacking the greedy capitalists who destroy jobs with no regard to human cost. Where did you learn Jujutsu ?
Re: Those jobs aren't coming back-Now he tells us - swampy - 03-29-2009
There is also the conservative option of lowering taxes on US businesses to make it more attractive to stay state side.
Re: Those jobs aren't coming back-Now he tells us - JoeH - 03-29-2009
swampy wrote:
There is also the conservative option of lowering taxes on US businesses to make it more attractive to stay state side.
That option has not worked so far, why would you expect it to suddenly start doing so now? Overall businesses are paying historically low tax rates, and they still send jobs overseas.
Re: Those jobs aren't coming back-Now he tells us - kj - 03-29-2009
JoeH wrote:
[quote=swampy]
There is also the conservative option of lowering taxes on US businesses to make it more attractive to stay state side.
That option has not worked so far, why would you expect it to suddenly start doing so now? Overall businesses are paying historically low tax rates, and they still send jobs overseas.
There's always the possibility lower wages might start looking comparatively good to people without jobs at all. And with a little help from the gov't some of the jobs might stay. Or we can spend more on student loans so people can get degrees to be massage therapists (Stevens Henager or Apollo College!). I'm sure that economic payoff should be kicking in any time. kj.
Re: Those jobs aren't coming back-Now he tells us - swampy - 03-30-2009
"That option has not worked so far, why would you expect it to suddenly start doing so now? Overall businesses are paying historically low tax rates, and they still send jobs overseas."
Of course it hasn't worked. The corporate rate in the US can run as high as 35%. Why wouldn't a company leave and go to Ireland where the rate is 11%?
Even a 20% tax rate is better than nothing when businesses move overseas.
Re: Those jobs aren't coming back-Now he tells us - JoeH - 03-30-2009
swampy wrote:
"That option has not worked so far, why would you expect it to suddenly start doing so now? Overall businesses are paying historically low tax rates, and they still send jobs overseas."
Of course it hasn't worked. The corporate rate in the US can run as high as 35%. Why wouldn't a company leave and go to Ireland where the rate is 11%?
Even a 20% tax rate is better than nothing when businesses move overseas.
Except they don't go to Ireland either. Your argument is built on something much less stable than a house of cards. And the effective tax rate on most businesses is a heck of a lot lower than 35%, even 20% is higher than most medium to large businesses pay. The reasons they are going overseas is cheap labor there, high benefit costs here, and other reasons. Taxes are listed way down the list in any survey of companies considering moving jobs overseas. In fact, didn't Apple used to have production facilities in Ireland, but even moved that production to China?
Re: Those jobs aren't coming back-Now he tells us - Mac1337 - 03-30-2009
I am surprised this page is still up. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/. Someone do a screen capture quick.
"End Tax Breaks for Companies that Send Jobs Overseas: Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe that companies should not get billions of dollars in tax deductions for moving their operations overseas. Obama and Biden will also fight to ensure that public contracts are awarded to companies that are committed to American workers."
Anybody knows of any concrete actions? And is this in the budget?
"Provide tax relief for small businesses and startups:
Obama and Biden will eliminate all capital gains taxes on startup and small businesses to encourage innovation and job creation."
Re: Those jobs aren't coming back-Now he tells us - davester - 03-30-2009
Amazing, you read something and then you try to repeat it and it comes out completely transformed into a Dakota-ified straw man that bears no resemblance whatsoever to the original statement. You seem to have zero comprehension of the written word. Are you really this dense or are you just pretending so that you'll have something to bitch about? Let me break it into teensy sound bites so perhaps you can comprehend (though I'm not hopeful).
Dakota wrote:
Never thought it would be that easy to make a Republican out of a life long Democrat. Admiring the capitalist system,
Stupid statement no. 1. This just in...no matter what Rush says, Democrats and Republicans are all capitalists.
sending jobs to where costs are low
Stupid statement no. 2. Nobody is promoting this, it is just a fact of life in any capitalist system. You need to either find a way to work around it, limit unfettered capitalism with regulations, or ditch capitalism altogether. You seem to think that if someone makes an observation then they must be promoting the observation. Your reading comprehension skills are prekindergarten in this respect.
and advocating lower wages.
Really stupid statement no. 3. Nobody is advocating lower wages. Again, it is a capitalist fact of life. Perhaps you were sleeping (or more likely absent) during economics class (and reading class).
Now, if Obama came out tomorrow and started bashing businesses who send Jobs overseas the davester and stevie crowd would quickly fall in line and start attacking the greedy capitalists who destroy jobs with no regard to human cost.
Garbled logic and stupid statement no. 4. Most of you wingnuts seek to blame "bad" people for problems ("evildoers", "smoke em out", "kill 'em" ) and never try to understand or fix the root causes. You think that setting up "us vs them" leads to tangible results. Blaming "greedy capitalists" is a fools errand unless you are talking about the greedy capitalists who ran the executive branch over the last eight years and opened the floodgates of deregulation. Obama could bash businesses all he liked and it wouldn't do a bit of good...that's a Bush/Cheney tactic. Human nature is human nature. It is stupid to blame people in a capitalist system for responding to capitalist incentives. The "davester crowd" (I can't speak for $tevie, though clearly you wrongly attempt to) is not stupid enough to attack "greedy capitalists".
Re: Those jobs aren't coming back-Now he tells us - Carnos Jax - 03-30-2009
Dakota seems to awfully believe in stereotypes. I've mentioned it before, Dakota, they way you try to make points here are really do not do credit to your position. I realize you may feel out numbered here, but that shouldn't keep you from making credible arguments. There are opposing viewpoints to the mainstream here (such as Swampy, et. al.) who do not engage in--and no offense here, but for the lack of a better word--elementary/junior high level childishness.
Re: Those jobs aren't coming back-Now he tells us - Mac1337 - 03-30-2009
davester wrote:
Amazing, you read something and then you try to repeat it and it comes out completely transformed into a Dakota-ified straw man that bears no resemblance whatsoever to the original statement. You seem to have zero comprehension of the written word. Are you really this dense or are you just pretending so that you'll have something to bitch about? Let me break it into teensy sound bites so perhaps you can comprehend (though I'm not hopeful).
[quote=Dakota]
Never thought it would be that easy to make a Republican out of a life long Democrat. Admiring the capitalist system,
Stupid statement no. 1. This just in...no matter what Rush says, Democrats and Republicans are all capitalists.
sending jobs to where costs are low
Stupid statement no. 2. Nobody is promoting this, it is just a fact of life in any capitalist system. You need to either find a way to work around it, limit unfettered capitalism with regulations, or ditch capitalism altogether. You seem to think that if someone makes an observation then they must be promoting the observation. Your reading comprehension skills are prekindergarten in this respect.
and advocating lower wages.
Really stupid statement no. 3. Nobody is advocating lower wages. Again, it is a capitalist fact of life. Perhaps you were sleeping (or more likely absent) during economics class (and reading class).
Now, if Obama came out tomorrow and started bashing businesses who send Jobs overseas the davester and stevie crowd would quickly fall in line and start attacking the greedy capitalists who destroy jobs with no regard to human cost.
Garbled logic and stupid statement no. 4. Most of you wingnuts seek to blame "bad" people for problems ("evildoers", "smoke em out", "kill 'em" ) and never try to understand or fix the root causes. You think that setting up "us vs them" leads to tangible results. Blaming "greedy capitalists" is a fools errand unless you are talking about the greedy capitalists who ran the executive branch over the last eight years and opened the floodgates of deregulation. Obama could bash businesses all he liked and it wouldn't do a bit of good...that's a Bush/Cheney tactic. Human nature is human nature. It is stupid to blame people in a capitalist system for responding to capitalist incentives. The "davester crowd" (I can't speak for $tevie, though clearly you wrongly attempt to) is not stupid enough to attack "greedy capitalists".
Half a page of nothing. Try again after you have regained your composure.