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Planet Earth without humans - Printable Version

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Re: Planet Earth without humans - mrlynn - 08-26-2014

eustacetilley wrote:
Just what does one do with that many shoes?

Find Imelda Marcos.

/anon.


Re: Planet Earth without humans - Speedy - 08-26-2014

Soylent Green.

eustacetilley wrote:


Some claim that "Dinosaurs" did not go extinct; they evolved, as usual, or if one prefers, as planned.
They taste just like chicken.

Some math fun:
Say 7 Billion People on Earth, and each weighs 50Kg. (Note that the last billion are all under the age of ~14.)
That's ~350 Billion Kilograms, which seems like a lot. But it isn't really.
Put them all through a blender, and you have roughly 350 Billion liters of Human Soup.
That's roughly 350 Million cubic meters, or a cube ~700 meters per side.
Housing such a cube poses difficulties, leakage being one of the worst, but it is not insoluble, and there isn't any need really.
The Grand Canyon gets up to 1800 Meters deep, so just find a likely corner, and pour it all in. Once Gravity does its job, all that is left is a rather large pink stain in one corner.

The numbers are pretty big still, so let's just take Manhattan, which has a permanent population of around 1.6 Million. (This has been stable for decades.) New Yorkers can get fairly large, so let's bump up the weight to 70KG per Manhattanite.
~112 Million Kilos, ~112 Million Liters, ~112,000 Cubic Meters. A cube a bit less than 50 meters to a side.
The Empire State Building is around a Million cubic meters, so if one liquifies the population of Manhattan, and pours it into the Empire State Building, it would reach the 12th story, give or take a story or two.

These numbers don't take into account one critical factor- Shoes.

Assuming that half the World population is wearing shoes just before Liquefaction, that means that there will be around 7 billion shoes to deal with.
Just what does one do with that many shoes?

Eustace



Re: Planet Earth without humans - davester - 08-26-2014

mrlynn wrote:
[quote=davester]
[quote=mrlynn]
I have often wondered whether, had not the dinosaurs been wiped out c. 65 million years ago, they might have evolved into creatures with big-enough brains to be called human-like. Many walked on two legs, with small arms that could have developed opposable thumbs. Some of them may have had binocular vision, not unlike ours. It's interesting to speculate whether their non-mammalian brains might have developed very different kinds of symbology (language, music, art), etc, or for that matter, any at all.

/Mr Lynn

The dinosaurs are still with us but with a different name...birds. Their arms became wings and they (mostly) took to the skies. Birds are evolved theropod dinosaurs (T.Rex was one too!).
True, of course. One look at the iridescent grackles at my bird feeder tells me what the fiercest dinos might have been like, only much larger. Still, if they larger ones had survived, and kept the mammals from filling their niches, I can imagine some evolving in a sentient direction.
/Mr Lynn
Definitely. It's probably just evolutionary chance that a mammal happened upon the ecological niche that favored intellect. Could have been a fish, bird, reptile, whatever. Time and DNA replication together provide the mechanism for creating anything that will give an advantage.


Re: Planet Earth without humans - Article Accelerator - 08-26-2014

davester wrote:
[quote=Article Accelerator]
Beyond that, h o m o sapiens possesses certain characteristics that appear to be absolutely unique, e.g. time sense (both literal and existential), symbology and modelling, and music. None of those is a mere extension of "intelligence." We are also the only known species that cooks its food, a capability critical to efficient caloric intake and intensive exploitation of the environment. Without cooking, we likely could not have supported our brains and brain evolution.

That's not clearly true. There is a lot of evidence that early hom o sapiens didn't do any of those things any better than modern bonobos.
There is no evidence that bonobos or any other creature possesses the characteristics or capabilities I mentioned.

The appearance of homo sapiens in the fossil record does not appear to coincide with the huge intellectual leap that begat us civilization. That leap came fairly late in the reign of homo sapiens.

Agreed.

On the other hand, the things I noted along with certain other anatomical changes (e.g. laryngeal and lingual anatomy, the MYH16 gene mutation hypothesis) likely preceded and may have been necessary precursors to the leap in intelligence in h o m o sapiens.


Re: Planet Earth without humans - Carnos Jax - 08-26-2014

As noted, birds are dinosaurs. Dinosaurs and mammals were parallel evolutionary paths that stemmed from fishes--->amphibians--->reptiles. One thing that each line had in general over its predecessor line is intelligence. So it's fair to say Dinos and mammals were trending equally in this area (no surprise that some bird species are number 2 on the intelligence list below humans). Going further, there were members of the theropod line of dinosaurs (of which birds are) that were speculated to eventually develop a humanoid form. Only thing is that Dinosaurs had dominated for 250 million years...you'd think they'd have made something of themselves (pure whimsical speculation of course on my part, as evolution is not always so straightforward in its timing, etc.).


Re: Planet Earth without humans - Carnos Jax - 08-26-2014

P.S. - Its easy to forget that what we've talked about are the vertebrates. Cephalopods (octopus, squid) humble me with the intelligence they show in their short lives. I wonder what they would amount to if they had longer lives.


Re: Planet Earth without humans - PeterB - 08-26-2014

Carnos Jax wrote:
P.S. - Its easy to forget that what we've talked about are the vertebrates. Cephalopods (octopus, squid) humble me with the intelligence they show in their short lives. I wonder what they would amount to if they had longer lives.

What makes you think that a long lifespan is necessary to have a civilization or culture? For all we know, the whales and dolphins have culture, as much as we or the chimps do. Who's to know whether the cuttlefish or bees or ants don't also? It's typical of the human mindset to assume that life or civilization must take the same form as yours.


Re: Planet Earth without humans - mrlynn - 08-26-2014

PeterB wrote:
[quote=Carnos Jax]
P.S. - Its easy to forget that what we've talked about are the vertebrates. Cephalopods (octopus, squid) humble me with the intelligence they show in their short lives. I wonder what they would amount to if they had longer lives.

What makes you think that a long lifespan is necessary to have a civilization or culture? For all we know, the whales and dolphins have culture, as much as we or the chimps do. Who's to know whether the cuttlefish or bees or ants don't also? It's typical of the human mindset to assume that life or civilization must take the same form as yours.
It depends how you define 'civilization'. Space-time asked, "what species would be most likely to develop a civilization as advanced as ours?" By 'advanced' presumably he means 'technologically advanced'. That would be hard to do under the sea, without fire, though alternative means of manipulating chemicals and materials can certainly be imagined.

There was a story many decades ago in which the victim of a sunken ship is rescued by intelligent beings in the ocean depths, cephalopods I assume. I can't recollect the title and author at the moment, though with a little digging I could probably find it.

Humans, more than any other animals, are what Alfred Korzybski called 'time-binders'. Through the medium of language, they pass increasingly complex information down from generation to generation, without genetic encoding. No other known creatures can do this to anything close to the human extent.

/Mr Lynn


Re: Planet Earth without humans - pdq - 08-26-2014

Scientific American wrote:
Carl Sagan speculated about intelligent dinosaurs in The Dragons of Eden (1977) and posed the question: what if non-avialan dinosaurs hadn’t become extinct? If Cretaceous forms were already so ‘smart’, what would have happened given another 60-odd million years of evolution?

Dinosauroids!




Re: Planet Earth without humans - decay - 08-27-2014

I can also spot a Kirby piece very quickly