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+--- Thread: Planet Earth without humans (/showthread.php?tid=170461)
Re: Planet Earth without humans - mrlynn - 08-27-2014
pdq: Interesting article. One thing to consider is that it is more than a large brain and other physical features that makes us human. There were also the likelihood that our hominid ancestors were sociable creatures living in groups, like baboons perhaps, and that this had something to do with the development of language and cooperative relations. One has to wonder whether even very smart dinos would have evolved into civilization-building creatures, or remained more independent, as birds are, even in flocks.
/Mr Lynn
Re: Planet Earth without humans - freeradical - 08-27-2014
mrlynn wrote:
pdq: Interesting article. One thing to consider is that it is more than a large brain and other physical features that makes us human. There were also the likelihood that our hominid ancestors were sociable creatures living in groups, like baboons perhaps, and that this had something to do with the development of language and cooperative relations. One has to wonder whether even very smart dinos would have evolved into civilization-building creatures, or remained more independent, as birds are, even in flocks.
/Mr Lynn
It's not just that we have big brains; the surface of our brains have ridges and valleys which tremendously increase it's actual surface area. IIRC, there were hominids that had much bigger brains than us.
Re: Planet Earth without humans - PeterB - 08-27-2014
mrlynn wrote:
[quote=PeterB]
[quote=Carnos Jax]
P.S. - Its easy to forget that what we've talked about are the vertebrates. Cephalopods (octopus, squid) humble me with the intelligence they show in their short lives. I wonder what they would amount to if they had longer lives.
What makes you think that a long lifespan is necessary to have a civilization or culture? For all we know, the whales and dolphins have culture, as much as we or the chimps do. Who's to know whether the cuttlefish or bees or ants don't also? It's typical of the human mindset to assume that life or civilization must take the same form as yours.
It depends how you define 'civilization'. Space-time asked, "what species would be most likely to develop a civilization as advanced as ours?" By 'advanced' presumably he means 'technologically advanced'. That would be hard to do under the sea, without fire, though alternative means of manipulating chemicals and materials can certainly be imagined.
There was a story many decades ago in which the victim of a sunken ship is rescued by intelligent beings in the ocean depths, cephalopods I assume. I can't recollect the title and author at the moment, though with a little digging I could probably find it.
Humans, more than any other animals, are what Alfred Korzybski called 'time-binders'. Through the medium of language, they pass increasingly complex information down from generation to generation, without genetic encoding. No other known creatures can do this to anything close to the human extent.
/Mr Lynn
With respect, you don't know that (your last sentence). For all we know, the dolphins have culture and accumulated information after millions of years. After all, they tried to warn us, but we wouldn't listen... so long, and thanks for all the fish.
And as you point out, civilization is not merely technological. Some animal species create for the sake of enjoyment and creation, and then teach others to do the same. Their creations might not be as long-lasting as ours, but why would a civilization that rise and fell within 5 msec be any less valid than one that lasted a thousand years?
Re: Planet Earth without humans - decay - 08-27-2014
if we have such large brains, and are supposedly the most intelligent, why haven't we figured out how to stop slaughtering each other?
Re: Planet Earth without humans - Article Accelerator - 08-27-2014
decay wrote:
if we have such large brains, and are supposedly the most intelligent, why haven't we figured out how to stop slaughtering each other?
Tragically, it's quite possible that one of the reasons we have such large brains is because we need to figure out how to slaughter each other (and keep from being slaughtered by each other).