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+--- Thread: Serious question - why is the far right obsessed with gender definitions? (/showthread.php?tid=276698)
Re: Serious question - why is the far right obsessed with gender definitions? - DeusxMac - 04-30-2023
sekker wrote:
I think the right amplify the extreme left politicians, though there seem to be fewer who are completely out of their minds.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. seems to be aspiring to that.
"Kennedy and Children's Health Defense have attempted to undermine the fact that vaccines don't cause autism."
"During the COVID-19 pandemic, Kennedy promoted multiple conspiracy theories related to COVID-19 including false claims both Anthony Fauci and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation were trying to profit off a vaccine, and suggesting that Bill Gates would cut off access to money of people who do not get vaccinated, allowing them to starve."
Re: Serious question - why is the far right obsessed with gender definitions? - $tevie - 04-30-2023
Rolando wrote: The ad exec who decided to make Dylan Mulvaney the face of Bud Light was an idiot.
They didn't make her the face of Bud Light. They sent her a few beer cans, one with her face on it, and she showed them off on her Instagram.
Ask yourself how everyone found out about it. Do they all follow Dylan Mulvaney on Instagram? On TikTok? Or did they find out because the usual outrage-mongers who go searching the internet for things to make THEIR followers shit their pants found it and spread it around?
Or maybe the right wing are big followers of trans influencers. It wouldn't surprise me in the least.
Re: Serious question - why is the far right obsessed with gender definitions? - $tevie - 04-30-2023
graylocks wrote:
[quote=sekker]
This is a genuine inquiry - why the obsession? Just because someone else is different doesn’t change who I AM.
Appreciate the explanation as I am clueless.
wedge issue that easily rallies the religious masses who believe it is against the laws of their god.
Yep.
Gay marriage became a nothing burger for most of the country, and Roe v Wade got shot down, so they needed something new to get out the rage-voting basket of deplorables.
Re: Serious question - why is the far right obsessed with gender definitions? - Lemon Drop - 04-30-2023
Biden just now at the the White House Correspondents’ Dinner: “I want everyone to have fun tonight, but please be safe. If you find yourself disoriented or confused, it’s either you’re drunk, or you’re Marjorie Taylor Greene.”
Re: Serious question - why is the far right obsessed with gender definitions? - sekker - 04-30-2023
Lemon Drop wrote:
Biden just now at the the White House Correspondents’ Dinner: “I want everyone to have fun tonight, but please be safe. If you find yourself disoriented or confused, it’s either you’re drunk, or you’re Marjorie Taylor Greene.”
Facepalm! Ugh. As funny as that line was - and I DID laugh - she is going to fundraise off it for years. She needs to be forgotten! (by the way, this is why I use the word 'Voldemort' for the last President. I want to avoid amplifying via web crawlers, etc).
Re: Serious question - why is the far right obsessed with gender definitions? - sekker - 04-30-2023
DeusxMac wrote:
[quote=sekker]
I think the right amplify the extreme left politicians, though there seem to be fewer who are completely out of their minds.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. seems to be aspiring to that.
"Kennedy and Children's Health Defense have attempted to undermine the fact that vaccines don't cause autism."
"During the COVID-19 pandemic, Kennedy promoted multiple conspiracy theories related to COVID-19 including false claims both Anthony Fauci and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation were trying to profit off a vaccine, and suggesting that Bill Gates would cut off access to money of people who do not get vaccinated, allowing them to starve."
Yes, your point is spot on. I have heard a Never-trumper Republican who used to love Ron D now pivot to amplify Kennedy as his way to go against Biden.
As for this particular Prince in a famous political family: I listened to his announcement for running for President. As a scientist, not as a lay citizen, I can say that he is factually wrong about vaccines for autism. He is also wrong about COVID vaccines saving lives. Does that make what else he says wrong? Maybe not. But when there is so much clear data on vaccines and autism, and he will not listen to experts, then I question his judgement in other areas. And so, not going to get my vote.
Re: Serious question - why is the far right obsessed with gender definitions? - Thrift Store Scott - 05-02-2023
sekker wrote:
Disclosure: my mother worked in the Dance Dept at a university. I’ve been exposed to non straight folk my entire life.
And I’m married to a Catholic.
But neither of us understand the current culture war.
This is a genuine inquiry - why the obsession? Just because someone else is different doesn’t change who I AM.
Appreciate the explanation as I am clueless.
As I see it there are two main components:
1. Compelled Speech, AKA The Pronoun Wars-
It's an absurd diversion because one's pronouns aren't ones to choose for themselves, but are instead chosen by others as a description based on one's appearance and/or behavior, but use the wrong pronoun for someone nowadays and you can face serious material consequences up to and including losing one's job among other things. That's bad enough but at least the motivation is somewhat understandable when the choices are limited to traditional male and female pronouns, but when people create their own unique and therefore entirely unguessable vanity pronouns AND attempt to force everyone who encounters them to use said vanity pronouns or face very real consequences, most people consider that a step too far because it's an obvious and deliberate trap.
2. Non-Trans People Deliberately Muddying The Water Around The Trans/Gender Issue-
A lot of it comes from some people making big, splashy announcements on social media about how they're "coming out" as either trans or some variety of alternate gender, usually with a great deal of fanfare and manufactured drama displayed in the video, while making few if any changes at all to their existing mode of dress, mannerisms, or grooming routine. Usually the ones who do this give a strong impression of being desperate for attention rather than any variety of trans as evidenced by their choice of vividly unnatural hair color (Ronald McDonald Red is apparently the flavor of the month right now), heavily applied makeup in a style that would make even the most hard-core Goth say "Umm... That's a little bit much, don't you think?", and enough metal rings and studs in their face to make anyone seeing them assume they're the tragic victims of multiple drive-by body piercings. All that is fine and dandy if that's how they want to present themselves to the world, but that look will inevitably draw not-inaccurate comparisons to circus clowns and adopting the appearance of a clown is not the best way to get people to take you seriously.
The term I've heard for the people I described in the above paragraph is "Trans-Trenders" because they're actually not trans at all and are instead doing anything and everything they can to get attention and a sense of belonging including claiming very loudly to be trans when they're not, so the term seems apt.
To be clear, in no way do I think the people I've described above represent the actual trans community, nor even a large percentage of it, yet their videos are the ones that get the most attention and are likely to become viral sensations so they wind up being wrongly taken as accurate representations of the trans community as a whole by the cis mainstream and thus they are only helping to delegitimize the movement and the people in it.
Then there are the "Trans-Grifters", people who I also strongly suspect aren't trans at all but claim to be in order to either make money or further their own personal agenda at the expense of actual trans people. This group is typified by a popular and controversial YouTuber who made a video asserting how expecting a sex partner to have the genitalia you're familiar with and prefer is nothing more than "genital fetishization" and how refusing to have sex with a trans person whenever they ask is the worst kind of transphobia. All that sounds a bit extreme on the face of it, but when you take into account the persistent rumors that this YouTuber isn't trans at all but is instead a straight male with a fetish for seducing lesbians, coupled with the fact that this person's entire transition seems to consist of a single trip to Walmart to buy mascara, eye liner, lip gloss, and a three-pack of camisole tops, the alleged nefarious agenda behind the views expressed in their videos comes into sharper focus and the rumors become more credible. If someone can fully de-transition by doing nothing more than changing their shirt and using a single Wet Wipe to remove all their makeup, most people are naturally going to have doubts about that person's commitment to their transition.
Another source of friction are people who adopt a single feeling or mood that almost everyone cycles through at least once a day as their ENTIRE gender, and sometimes they try to substitute their new-found gender for a personality as well. Self-discovery and self-awareness are great things, but to most people in the greater cis mainstream focusing so closely on only one aspect of one's entire being to the apparent exclusion of everything else seems rather self-indulgent and myopic.
Finally, and perhaps worst of all for the trans and alternate-gender movements, are the loudly self-proclaimed ”Allies", the ones who aren't part of the movement at all but feel the need to jump in and vigorously ”defend" from any and all criticism anyone who is or claims to be part of the movement, whether said criticism is warranted or not and even if it is in no way whatsoever related to someone's trans or alternate-gendered status. These people do have good intentions at heart, but their overactive zeal and blind vigilance in "protecting" their friends is causing grave damage to the movement overall by making trans, alternate-gendered, and by association gay people, look like a bunch of delicate, oversensitive cry-babies who can't or won't speak for themselves, and many of these "Allies" have become so swollen with self-importance in their self-appointed role as ”Protector" of anyone in a movement they aren't a part of, they'll hit back twice as hard at an ACTUAL member of the movement should that member try to get them to reel it in a bit and stay in their own lane once in a while. If someone's activity does more harm than good to a movement, they're not being an ally, they're acting as a saboteur.
The most frustrating part is that I've noticed a stubborn reluctance among actual Trans people to call out these pretenders, charlatans, and leeches for what they really are. I can only take this as proof that they do indeed really want to live their lives as quietly as possible, but by ignoring the people who are subverting the movement to their own selfish goals they're giving unspoken approval to that activity which can only damage if not completely derail the movement as a whole.
Re: Serious question - why is the far right obsessed with gender definitions? - sekker - 05-02-2023
Thanks for the great discussion in this thread.
I feel better-informed, but still largely clueless as none of the arguments posted here are attractive to me personally.
But I gave up 99% of my social media nearly 2 years ago (MRF is a key part of the remaining 1%), so I am not personally experiencing these latest trends.
I sure wish we could focus on what brings us together and makes a more welcoming world than all of this that divides.
Re: Serious question - why is the far right obsessed with gender definitions? - DeusxMac - 05-02-2023
The ONLY issue I have with these neo-pronouns is the destruction of, IMHO, the completely legitimate concept of singular and plural.
“Is anyone joining us for dinner tonight?”
“Yes, they will be here soon.”
:dunno:Years ago, the creation of “Ms.” to remove the dated and undesired “Miss - or - Mrs.” from usage seemed like a reasonable solution.
How about an equivalent “new” word for singular non-gender-specific? “They” “them” can remain plural and, as always, non-gender-specific.
Re: Serious question - why is the far right obsessed with gender definitions? - $tevie - 05-02-2023
But I think that using "they" for singular has been quite common when gender was unknown or else all-encompassing.
for example: Someone left a note in my mailbox. They said they have my package that was delivered earlier.
If a person wants to use the pool, they have to sign a waiver.
I saw someone walking by and they were wearing a fedora.
etc.