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+--- Thread: GeneL Needs Our Help! (/showthread.php?tid=231141)
Re: GeneL Needs Our Help! - Blankity Blank - 08-09-2019
3d wrote:From what we were told a few years ago by a contact at the Alzheimer’s Foundation, some or all nursing homes are mandated to set aside a certain number of beds for Medicaid recipients. However, the homes’ strong preference is for patients with means to pay from their own funds, so negotiating your way into one of these reserved spots is not the easiest. She recommended finding a social worker or other consultant familiar with the process to assist in placement.
Catching pneumonia may have been a lucky break for you. I'm guessing you can stay in the hospital for a few days. Does the nursing/rehab center stay "reset" to give you more time? Or is the last day still still Monday regardless?
I'm really just guessing here but doesn't Medicaid help pay for a nursing home? I have to imagine you qualify for Medicaid with no income and no savings.
Re: GeneL Needs Our Help! - Buzz - 08-09-2019
A-Polly wrote:
Gosh, GeneL, what a stressful and complicated mess! I agree with whoever said the above, "Follow the money."
Unfortunately, I have no experience with collectibles but would be happy to donate if it comes to that. I hope your collections aren't locked up in the home you can't enter, though!
Also second the suggestion to speak with the social worker at your facility, and Adult Protective Services, and any of the legal aid suggestions mentioned above. The social worker at my dad's rehab facility was very kind and helpful.
Good luck, good thoughts, and best wishes coming at you from across the country. And hoping for Mavis to gain strength, too.
APS (Adult Protective Services) is pretty much worthless in the populated counties of California. Unless there are broken bones and/or mass quantities of blood, APS won't do squat. There are simply too many broken, bloody, and battered adults to deal with, so that verbal, mental, emotional, and anything up thru moderate physical abuse, simply don't rate wasting the precious few APS resource dollars the counties' have on those types of cases.
A social worker may be good for hand holding, which is helpful, but without multi-day hospital stay violence involved, keeping matters like this in the civil court arena, is only a game for multi-millionaires, and wealthier, to get involved in. Clinic level resources are stretched way too thin, and even when they are available, the level of realized service is pathetic at best. In CA's populous counties, you gotta pay, and pay big, in order to play. You can be guaranteed the only winners are gonna be the lawyers.... the Richie McRiches may get an occasional empiric victory, but a just, and fair, and cost effective resolution is a pipe dream.
Gene needs Dr, Phil... or Tony Soprano.
==
Re: GeneL Needs Our Help! - rz - 08-09-2019
Markintosh wrote:
While using an estate auction type of place will cost dearly as a percentage of value, they will save a lot of headache in helping separate the wheat from the chaff, and then taking everything at once. Unfortunately much of what parents had treasured was of no value to even local thrift stores. We had to pay to have it hauled away.
Same kind of thing happened with my aunt. She went into assisted living earlier this year, and my sister had the task of going through her stuff and selling it before putting the house up for sale. Stuff that my aunt treasured and thought was worth a lot of money was basically worthless. An estate sale company came and looked at all of it, and declined to take any of it. Furniture, collectibles, etc... all worthless. The only thing anyone wanted was some tools that her late husband had had. His son came and took some of them. She had a hard time finding anyone to take the furniture. Several thrift stores flat out told her they had way too much, and that nobody wanted that kind of stuff anyway.
When my dad passed last year, at least he had downsized several years earlier when my mom had passed. He did remarry, and his new wife took most of the furniture with her to her new place. Which we are thankful for, because I doubt we'd have gotten much if anything for it.
Re: GeneL Needs Our Help! - 3d - 08-09-2019
Blankity Blank wrote:From what we were told a few years ago by a contact at the Alzheimer’s Foundation, some or all nursing homes are mandated to set aside a certain number of beds for Medicaid recipients. However, the homes’ strong preference is for patients with means to pay from their own funds, so negotiating your way into one of these reserved spots is not the easiest. She recommended finding a social worker or other consultant familiar with the process to assist in placement.
[quote=3d]
Catching pneumonia may have been a lucky break for you. I'm guessing you can stay in the hospital for a few days. Does the nursing/rehab center stay "reset" to give you more time? Or is the last day still still Monday regardless?
I'm really just guessing here but doesn't Medicaid help pay for a nursing home? I have to imagine you qualify for Medicaid with no income and no savings.
He currently has a bed in a nursing facility (until Monday), so "having his foot in the door" may help the situation with Medicaid. But since no one has mentioned Medicaid until an hour ago when I brought it up, I get the feeling that this is not an option for him currently for whatever reason. Access to dialysis may shrink the pool of available nursing/rehab centers even more unfortunately.
*Edit* Since you are in the hospital currently, take advantage of the hospital social worker as much as possible. You are your own best advocate. Don't sign those hospital discharge papers until you (and the hospital) knows where you are going next. And that there is a bed waiting for you somewhere.
Re: GeneL Needs Our Help! - testcase - 08-09-2019
GeneL, Have you called that 211 number? If you haven't, start there. We're all sorry for the woes you're experiencing. There CAN BE light at the end of the tunnel. Are you a veteran of any of the uniformed services? If you are, many states have resources for their aging heroes. Do call your elected officials. You WON'T get to speak with a Council Person, Representative or Senator directly BUT, the staff should know what help IS available. Speak simply and clearly and stress that you're under severe time constraints. It can be amazing what doors can be opened once you find the right person. Some of these people WILL try to "blow you off" BUT, BEFORE you hang up, remember to ask who they could recommend that could be of help. If you have voted for any of these officials, TELL THEM THAT up front! You supported them, now YOU need their support. Of course, keep a written diary of who, what, when you speak with and a synopsis of the conversation. I'm in MT this week and, will be in ND next week before finally arriving in SD. I'll be surprised if there isn't a forum member who IS close to you who can offer some direct help, even if it's only a ride. We're ALL pulling for you here. May God bless you!
Re: GeneL Needs Our Help! - GeneL - 08-09-2019
I am so touched by the thoughtful posts from my friends. I do "wish" that I was closer to having someone near enough to assist me in getting some of the items that I would like to sell into shape to offer for sale, either online or in some commercial setting.
Some of the suggestions I already know about and have avoided because in my experience they have been crooks. When Mavis sold the house that she and her husband owned, she had someone come in to hold an estate sale.
The prices they put on the items were much too low and she ended up with very little from the sale. It really bothered me. I have looked into consignment stores in the past, but they get 40% of the sale price which seems too high to recover a decent profit.
I really could use some knowledgeable assistance with this.
Re: GeneL Needs Our Help! - Diana - 08-10-2019
People,
i have held off on saying anything, but some of the comments some have made makes me consider the reasons Mavis has been acting as she has. Some of the things that GeneL has said strike a chord with me and my current situation: my mom is 81 years old, and Mom has acted much as Mavis has been acting. I have considered for a while just keeping quiet, but I feel I have to put my suppositions out there. Perhaps it will help; if it doesn't, disregard what I say.
First, the acknowledgements and/or disclaimers: I am not a medical doctor; I am not a psychiatrist, a psychologist, or a minister, nor have I had any professional job that may bring me any insight into what is happening. I am only going with what I have personally observed in my life, what I have found out through asking those I have determined may actually know something, AND what GeneL has said to us. I have family members who have had to deal with long term care for incapacitated children, as well as what I found out while caring for my father as he succumbed to lung cancer. I certainly don't know everything, and I may be totally full of shite and know nothing at all (most likely). I do not know GeneL nor Mavis. I am NOT a lawyer (never wanted to play one either). I have had to learn to be my mom's advocate as she navigates through her sunset years. My apologies if I step on anyone's toes here.
Here goes.
Mavis is 88 years old. She was born in a time where women didn't question what they were told; women were kept as close to child-like as possible, as their brains could not conceive nor process the harsher realities of life. I'm only saying this to remind those of us who may not have considered the ramifications of this. Good girls did as they were told; good girls behaved in certain ways; morally upright women are of a certain caliber, a certain way of thinking... The whole thing makes me want to scream. Mavis has always believed, deep down and unassailably, that others would be able to take care of her when she can no longer care for herself. There were things women were expected to be able to handle unsupervised, and the rest were things for men to take care of. Imagine what it would be like, to have lived your life with this imprinted on you, and then to suddenly have your life (your reality, actually) taken away from you! No wonder she's terrified. The support network of her family has decided to take a step into this, and now Mavis has to choose between the man she loves and who has been having health problems, and her family. The result of everything that Mavis has been taught throughout her life is that she will have to cling to the stronger of the two. At this time it appears that it is the family.
I am of two minds about the daughter. I can tell a bit from what we have already been told. Mavis has some money that can be used as Mavis continues to age and starts needing more care, more care than what the family can reasonably provide. That money can easily go to GeneL and his care if Mavis decides; after all, it is her money. So the daughter can be concerned that this is what is happening OR the daughter can be a money-grubbing so and so (I can't print what I am currently thinking) and she wants to ensure that HER share of the inheritance remains intact. The threat of Mavis not able to see her children, grandchildren, or great-grandchildren is heavy handed and designed to force Mavis to do what the daughter wants. I don't know if it is really the daughter, or someone else, but apparently they feel that such heavy handedness is necessary to either protect Mavis, or protect their own interests. Personally, it looks like their own interests.
If this was Oklahoma, and not California, I could tell you that the daughter has very little on her side. Mavis has not been diagnosed as having dementia (or any form of it); I can tell you that a brain scan can detect forms of dementia, as those forms involve physical changes to the brain that show up on said scans. As far as I know, a diagnostic brain scan for dementia or Alzheimers or any of the various other disease processes that mimic dementia has NOT been determined, much less in common use in geriatric patients. Anyway you consider a scan, it will involve comparing a previous scan with the new one, or (heaven forbid) comparing a current scan with a "representative" scan given her age. This may be what the daughter was aiming at during the "panic attack, wow, we need to scan mom's brain" thing. Or not. I don't know anything for sure. I do know that panic attacks don't equate to having to have one's brain scanned. Potential stroke? yeah.
As long as Mavis is of sound mind, can take care of herself in ordinary things, and remains cognizant of what is going on around her there is little the daughter, her husband, or anyone else can do. Unless and until Mavis is adjudged incompetent then this messy fight will continue. Make no mistake here, Mavis is a victim, and she is being terrorized by one person she probably never thought would do such a thing to her. She needs protection, and quickly before something irrevocable happens (such as signing away her rights and giving her daughter power of attorney over her).
Keep in mind that as people age, they become more child-like. This is an expected behavior of EVERYONE. As Mavis ages, she will also become more child-like; she needs help NOW to prevent anyone from taking advantage of her. Mavis doesn't fully know and may never fully know her own mind, and it is becoming easier for people to suggest to her things that may not be in her best interest. SCARED PEOPLE CAN'T THINK, and if she has been assaulted for enough time she will give up in exhaustion.
This is what I'm saying here: Mavis is an adult, of sound mind. She has the right to do what she wants, where she wants, when she wants, and how she wants, within the laws of this land, and NO ONE has the right to take it away from her.
GeneL, talk to a lawyer. The more I think about this situation, the more it begins to sound like this situation can easily begin to fall into elder abuse, especially if Mavis is as terrified as you have been describing. YOU have rights as well. Don't let someone else take way Mavis's rights (or yours) without damn good reason. The fact that Mavis cannot (or will not) stand up for herself, isn't good enough. Mavis needs an advocate (so do you, bucko!). Find one!
Good luck.
In case you missed it, go back and read the disclaimer above. Also, in case you are wondering, dear reader, I currently have medical power of attorney for Mom. It ONLY will be and can be invoked when or if Mom becomes incapacitated. Mom was terrified that the medical POA meant that I have complete control over her life, and that is just not so. Mom was also quite afraid that it meant that I could have her committed, and again, that cannot happen. The only thing it does is gives me control if/when Mom can't make decisions for herself, and will only make it easier for me to do what Mom wants if she can't do it for herself or be able to tell someone else what she wants.
I hope that all I have said concerning Mavis and GeneL is garbage, and if it is, please discard it, call me an idiot, and get on with your life. If it illuminates anything, then I have done my job.
Diana
Re: GeneL Needs Our Help! - mrlynn - 08-10-2019
Howdy Gene—
The one thing you have not told us is why Mavis's daughter is threatening to cut her off from family contacts if you return. It is quite possible you may not know yourself, but you have to find out.
About the only thing I can suggest, not knowing any of you personally, is this: Get on the phone and talk to all of Mavis's children, and (if they are of age) the grandchildren. Explain what Mavis's daughter has done, and ask to them to intervene so you can go home. After all, if they are willing to help, then the daughter's threat will have no force, and Mavis's fear can be alleviated with reassurances from the rest of the family that they support your coming home.
If the rest of the family are behind Mavis and agree with her, then this avenue will be a dead end. Perhaps you have already tried it. But either way, let us know.
Others here have offered good advice re legal/professional services, etc. But it sounds like the key is Mavis's family itself.
First thing of course is to get over the pneumonia. Know that you have the support of this community, and keep your chin up.
/Mr Lynn
Re: GeneL Needs Our Help! - deckeda - 08-10-2019
Well said, Diana. The part about women in that generation (hell, today's generation ... ) having a certain type of critical self image is 100% spot-on. The only time I ever got upset at my mom when she was dying of cancer was when she asked, "Why me? What have I done." I was visibly shaking at the thought of her blaming herself for her situation, it was such bullshit.
GeneL wrote:
... Basically it seems she did that to prevent me from having any "interest" in the ownership of the condo.
Possible red flag, as was her unwillingness to divorce for "tax reasons" (Sorry, not buying that, especially year after year.)
Look Gene, I don't mean to question her motives over the years, and I get that the convenience of being a couple has helped you both. But there's room to additionally be smart and considerate about finances and commitment as well. That means not putting one of you out on the street.
GeneL wrote:
... Any of you who are parents may have experienced saying something or doing something that made your little child so upset with fear that they just crumbled in front of you because they didn't have the experience to deal with the situation. That is what it felt like to me when Mavis described her fear of what would happen if she let me come home.
I just couldn't stand to bring out that terrified feeling that I saw, so I have backed off. I don't want to hurt her because I love her, so I am stuck, not able to get her to protect herself and not able to bring legal remedies into the situation.
As a parent I've done and said things that were unpleasant because it's not my job to be "their friend" all the time and to please them. Same goes for a companion. Every friend deserves an honest assessment. You asked, we're answering. As friends. Mavis wants help. Seems like you're in the best position to do it.
If you think the daughter is acting out of line to the detriment of both of you, I'd wager 33-some years of commitment gives you every damn right to tell her where to go and how to get there. It's not "emotion" or "meanness," just behavior needing modification. Or act guilty and you'll surely be it.
This is as much about you as it is Mavis. I get the strong sense she's a conflict avoider. Probably you both are. There are dire consequences for not standing up for yourself, and it limits the amount of outside assistance you'll perhaps see.
1) Take care of immediate needs
2) Make the calls already suggested.
3) Talk to the estate and auction houses. Yes they'll be expensive but the alternative is to get nothing. Please, I hope you take this in the spirit intended, but if multiple friends here tell you that estate or auction houses take a big cut but that there are obvious benefits to doing so, please don't then respond about a story years ago where you declined to go that route because of how little they pay. That seriously diminishes the sober and helpful input we've provided, and that you've asked for, yes?
4) I also really like the idea of reaching out to every child and grandchild. Be simple and straight to the point. If you have info to share, share it. If you have questions about the daughter, let ALL of them know you and Mavis have been left in the dark. Let them know the daughter has done X, Y, and Z without explanation to either you or to Mavis. It's time to let the family know the daughter is an asshat and that lives are at stake. This passive-agressive B.S. about withholding love (of kids/grandkids) for an unnamed power play only flies if you set it free.
If I'm wrong please let me know and I'll shut up as misunderstanding and misreading the situation.
Re: GeneL Needs Our Help! - Diana - 08-10-2019
Exactly!
Diana
deckeda wrote:
Well said, Diana. The part about women in that generation (hell, today's generation ... ) having a certain type of critical self image is 100% spot-on. The only time I ever got upset at my mom when she was dying of cancer was when she asked, "Why me? What have I done." I was visibly shaking at the thought of her blaming herself for her situation, it was such bullshit.
[quote=GeneL]
... Basically it seems she did that to prevent me from having any "interest" in the ownership of the condo.
Possible red flag, as was her unwillingness to divorce for "tax reasons" (Sorry, not buying that, especially year after year.)
Look Gene, I don't mean to question her motives over the years, and I get that the convenience of being a couple has helped you both. But there's room to additionally be smart and considerate about finances and commitment as well. That means not putting one of you out on the street.
GeneL wrote:
... Any of you who are parents may have experienced saying something or doing something that made your little child so upset with fear that they just crumbled in front of you because they didn't have the experience to deal with the situation. That is what it felt like to me when Mavis described her fear of what would happen if she let me come home.
I just couldn't stand to bring out that terrified feeling that I saw, so I have backed off. I don't want to hurt her because I love her, so I am stuck, not able to get her to protect herself and not able to bring legal remedies into the situation.
As a parent I've done and said things that were unpleasant because it's not my job to be "their friend" all the time and to please them. Same goes for a companion. Every friend deserves an honest assessment. You asked, we're answering. As friends. Mavis wants help. Seems like you're in the best position to do it.
If you think the daughter is acting out of line to the detriment of both of you, I'd wager 33-some years of commitment gives you every damn right to tell her where to go and how to get there. It's not "emotion" or "meanness," just behavior needing modification. Or act guilty and you'll surely be it.
This is as much about you as it is Mavis. I get the strong sense she's a conflict avoider. Probably you both are. There are dire consequences for not standing up for yourself, and it limits the amount of outside assistance you'll perhaps see.
1) Take care of immediate needs
2) Make the calls already suggested.
3) Talk to the estate and auction houses. Yes they'll be expensive but the alternative is to get nothing. Please, I hope you take this in the spirit intended, but if multiple friends here tell you that estate or auction houses take a big cut but that there are obvious benefits to doing so, please don't then respond about a story years ago where you declined to go that route because of how little they pay. That seriously diminishes the sober and helpful input we've provided, and that you've asked for, yes?
4) I also really like the idea of reaching out to every child and grandchild. Be simple and straight to the point. If you have info to share, share it. If you have questions about the daughter, let ALL of them know you and Mavis have been left in the dark. Let them know the daughter has done X, Y, and Z without explanation to either you or to Mavis. It's time to let the family know the daughter is an asshat and that lives are at stake. This passive-agressive B.S. about withholding love (of kids/grandkids) for an unnamed power play only flies if you set it free.
If I'm wrong please let me know and I'll shut up as misunderstanding and misreading the situation.