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+--- Thread: All COVID-19 Discussion GOES HERE (/showthread.php?tid=239994)
Re: All COVID-19 Discussion GOES HERE - bfd - 04-19-2020
Lemon Drop wrote:
As the admin mentioned, anyone can start a new virus related-thread on the FPR side. Doesn't have to be in this thread.
Of course, even visiting the anchored thread (for some) could mean about the same thing as visiting COVID-19 patients in the ICU…. :wall:
Re: All COVID-19 Discussion GOES HERE - space-time - 04-21-2020
Anti-malarial drug Trump touted is linked to higher rates of death, study says
An anti-malarial drug President Trump has aggressively promoted to treat covid-19 had no benefit and was linked to higher rates of death for Veterans Affairs patients hospitalized with the novel coronavirus, according to a study.
The study by VA and academic researchers analyzed outcomes of 368 male patients nationwide, with 97 receiving hydroxychloroquine, 113 receiving hydroxychloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, and 158 not receiving any hydroxychloroquine.
Rates of death in the groups treated with the drugs were worse than those who did not receive the drugs, the study found. Rates of patients on ventilators were roughly equal, with no benefit demonstrated by the drugs.
When asked about the study at the White House briefing on Tuesday, Trump said he was not aware of the study but that he would look into it.
Re: All COVID-19 Discussion GOES HERE - Michael - 04-22-2020
space-time wrote:
Anti-malarial drug Trump touted is linked to higher rates of death, study says
An anti-malarial drug President Trump has aggressively promoted to treat covid-19 had no benefit and was linked to higher rates of death for Veterans Affairs patients hospitalized with the novel coronavirus, according to a study.
The study by VA and academic researchers analyzed outcomes of 368 male patients nationwide, with 97 receiving hydroxychloroquine, 113 receiving hydroxychloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, and 158 not receiving any hydroxychloroquine.
Rates of death in the groups treated with the drugs were worse than those who did not receive the drugs, the study found. Rates of patients on ventilators were roughly equal, with no benefit demonstrated by the drugs.
When asked about the study at the White House briefing on Tuesday, Trump said he was not aware of the study but that he would look into it.
A problem with this type of retrospective study is that it doesn't take into account that particular patients who received the hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin, might have been viewed by their doctors as being very, very sick and so got the drugs as a last hope for recovery because they were so sick. A greater percentage of those patient dying might reflect just how sick they were when they received the hydrozycholoroquine and not that the drug was ineffective or even more deadly than just supportive treatment.
It's interesting to me that early in their piece they say that, "Hydroxychloroquine, alone or in combination with azithromycin, is being widely used in Covid-19 therapy based on anecdotal and limited observational evidence." and end the article pointing out the importance of double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled studies. But, they present data that is very limited, itself.
Here's the report: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1
Re: All COVID-19 Discussion GOES HERE - rjmacs - 04-22-2020
Oh, Michael - you're so right, but Americans hate waiting for science to finish before getting their answers. They'd rather eat a half-cooked frozen burrito of pseudo-knowledge than enjoy a delicious, wholesome stew of valid conclusions that takes months to make.
Re: All COVID-19 Discussion GOES HERE - Sarcany - 04-22-2020
The VA report is every bit as valid as the original French "study" that the hydroxychloroquine proponents cited.
Re: All COVID-19 Discussion GOES HERE - deckeda - 04-23-2020
That drug was always about throwing things against the wall to see what would stick. Not a recipe for success.
Re: All COVID-19 Discussion GOES HERE - pdq - 04-23-2020
rjmacs wrote:
They'd rather eat a half-cooked frozen burrito of pseudo-knowledge than enjoy a delicious, wholesome stew of valid conclusions that takes months to make.
What a marvelously culinary metaphor that also happens to be spot on!
miley-score010:
Re: All COVID-19 Discussion GOES HERE - Lemon Drop - 04-23-2020
Michael wrote:
[quote=space-time]
Anti-malarial drug Trump touted is linked to higher rates of death, study says
An anti-malarial drug President Trump has aggressively promoted to treat covid-19 had no benefit and was linked to higher rates of death for Veterans Affairs patients hospitalized with the novel coronavirus, according to a study.
The study by VA and academic researchers analyzed outcomes of 368 male patients nationwide, with 97 receiving hydroxychloroquine, 113 receiving hydroxychloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, and 158 not receiving any hydroxychloroquine.
Rates of death in the groups treated with the drugs were worse than those who did not receive the drugs, the study found. Rates of patients on ventilators were roughly equal, with no benefit demonstrated by the drugs.
When asked about the study at the White House briefing on Tuesday, Trump said he was not aware of the study but that he would look into it.
A problem with this type of retrospective study is that it doesn't take into account that particular patients who received the hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin, might have been viewed by their doctors as being very, very sick and so got the drugs as a last hope for recovery because they were so sick. A greater percentage of those patient dying might reflect just how sick they were when they received the hydrozycholoroquine and not that the drug was ineffective or even more deadly than just supportive treatment.
It's interesting to me that early in their piece they say that, "Hydroxychloroquine, alone or in combination with azithromycin, is being widely used in Covid-19 therapy based on anecdotal and limited observational evidence." and end the article pointing out the importance of double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled studies. But, they present data that is very limited, itself.
Here's the report: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1
The value of this study is not that it can be used to officially approve or disapprove this treatment officially, it's that it has apparently convinced Trump and others at the WH and on Fox News to stop saying that this is the miracle cure that everybody should try because "what have you got to lose?" So maybe fewer people will put themselves at unnecessary risk by signing up to take this experimental treatment, and clinicians will heed the study's warning.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/22/trump-hydroxychloroquine-study-coronavirus
Re: All COVID-19 Discussion GOES HERE - DeusxMac - 04-23-2020
Lemon Drop wrote:
... it can be used to officially approve or disapprove this treatment officially...
Until officially approved by the Department of Redundancy Department.
:devil:
Re: All COVID-19 Discussion GOES HERE - deckeda - 04-24-2020
Lemon Drop wrote:
The value of this study is not that it can be used to officially approve or disapprove this treatment officially, it's that it has apparently convinced Trump and others at the WH and on Fox News to stop saying that this is the miracle cure that everybody should try because "what have you got to lose?" ...
Color me pessimistic. They'll simply latch onto the next Miracle Cure, for the same reasons they latched into that one. We know this from past behavior.
It requires acknowledgement of wrongdoing, which is persona non grata with them both. Witness the reporters who ask him every day why he no longer talks about hydroxychloroquine. He instantly pivots to another reporter or claims to know nothing about the information that refutes his dangerous behavior.
[Edit: I forgot about the new lab “study” they’re now quoting about heat and light. In a news weeks it’ll be some new distraction of course. ]