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+--- Thread: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Arizona Event (/showthread.php?tid=109790)
Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Arizona Event - Grace62 - 01-09-2011
"Don't retreat, reload."
Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Arizona Event - seeing.the.unseeable - 01-09-2011
Unbelievable. I never thought I'd see the day.
Thanks, Dakota - you actually got my point.
And $tevie and Uncle Wig - thank you, as well.
I lurked on this forum and found that the majority of posters here were evenhanded. I don't agree with everyone, but I enjoyed the exchange of ideas. So I thought I'd join the discussion - hey, it beats the yelling matches on the Times and WaPo sites.
Apparently I misjudged the level of discourse here, however.
Special thanks to those who sent me special messages - Rick-O, Black ( "Go away" ) and John Dough ( "what the hell is wrong with you?" ).
To everyone who jumped on the ad hominem bandwagon, thanks for reminding me why I don't even feel like I can call myself a liberal anymore.
When people ask me, despite years of being overtly and unapologetically left-leaning, I now have to say that I'm a moderate because of one simple fact: You eat your own.
Dakota was right - I'm extremely anti-guns I have very good reasons for feeling that way.
I'm also extremely anti-death, especially unnecessary death.
Especially children.
Especially for imaginary things like "causes."
The fact that some of the people who were reported as dead have thus far survived is a great relief to me. I don't need any more reminders of how far we've fallen from our ideals that this kind of even is commonplace.
Which brings me to my ever-longwinded point.
I thought my first post was clear and as diplomatic as I could be without taking political sides. I hardly thought it required explanation.
Still, people did precisely what I said they would - they read between the lines, didn't like what they saw, then jumped all over me. I even replied to clarify, but that only increased the level of vitriol in posts directed specifically to me.
So for the benefit of Rick-O - and anyone who has suffered through this thus far - here's exactly what I meant by what I said:
seeing.the.unseeable wrote:
I'm saddened by this news - and horrified.
Self-explanatory.
seeing.the.unseeable wrote:
Who among us didn't know, or at least suspect, that this day was coming?
Translation: people bring guns to political rallies. We have open-carry laws. And mostly, people are angry. Whether they've been amped up by people with political motives (Palin), self-serving egomania (Beck) or they're just irresponsible (most of the media), the fact is that people are ticked. With our NRA-funded representatives, this is a volatile mix. Was I wrong to point that out?
seeing.the.unseeable wrote:
Really, that this is even possible in this great nation is humiliating.
Meaning that we've spent decades selectively interpreting an amendment to the point that I could now buy an assault rifle if I wanted to - and why on earth would I want to? - with less effort than it takes to buy a plane ticket.
seeing.the.unseeable wrote:
We should hang our heads in shame for allowing - and in many cases encouraging - the toxic climate that in all probability is at the root of this tragic event.
See: the media, the paid-for reps, and especially this generation's Father Coughlins.
seeing.the.unseeable wrote:
I'd like to think we might learn from this, but when has America ever genuinely learned from its mistakes?
Translation: we're in two wars now largely because, as a nation, we're too proud of our past to recognize where we are now. And, more importantly, we embrace violence like few other cultures ever have. And we don't admit our mistakes because we're a proud, manly land - love it or leave it, my way or the highway, fer or agin'. Not much room for compromise here anymore - from either side apparently.
seeing.the.unseeable wrote:
I await the reprimands from those who will read between the lines of what I've written here and find a reason to attack my words.
And I was not disappointed.
seeing.the.unseeable wrote:
Perhaps this is because they recognize their own reflections staring back at them from between those same lines.
You get extra credit for answering this honestly - and internally. Don't tell me how wrong I am.
Not every German was a Nazi; how many years after the war was it that it was even acceptable to express that opinion? With that in mind, how do you think the people of the not-too-distant future will look back at us - and I mean all of us - for sitting idly by while we slid into times where events like this are even possible?
Where the greatest democracy ever pats itself on the back for so many past glories yet refuses to acknowledge what it has become? That we're polite to the rudest people, yet never fail to attack each other - case in point.
seeing.the.unseeable wrote:
Sad, sad, sad.
And I remain thus.
Perhaps because my warm-up for this was writing my mother's obituary today. One of the perks of being the guy in the family with a journalism degree. Cheers.
But also because this is probably the last thing I'll post on here.
I may still lurk, but I don't think the atmosphere here is as rarified as I felt it was.
My mistake; I should have followed the tenor of my detractors in this thread and simply judged them immediately based on my knee-jerk reaction to a single post of theirs which expressed a sentiment I disagreed with.
So again, to Dakota, $tevie and Uncle Wig - thank you.
To everyone here who has posted comments I've shared with my family and friends, thank you as well.
And if Rick-O, Black and John Dough feel like telling me that they won't miss me - or describing what they think is "wrong" with me - perhaps they should reconsider for a moment and think of whether they're steering the discourse in a productive direction, or if they're simply taking a cheap, easy shot rather than looking in the mirror.
Auf wiedersheen.
Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Arizona Event - Mac1337 - 01-09-2011
Grace62 wrote:
Glock 9 mm with extended magazine.
Phew! Imagine if it was a SigSauer. FYI, Glock is not an "assault" weapon. In fact, I don't think anyone would be interested in buying a gun that cannot assault anyone. There are so many inaccuracies in your post about gun laws that I can't even begin to address.
@Seeing...
your "between the lines" was screaming for someone like Grace to pick up and run with it. Somehow they missed it but don't be dismayed. You are still among friends here.
Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Arizona Event - cbelt3 - 01-09-2011
Dear god.... Prayers for the victims. We'll wonder what the reason was, but it will probably involve some sort of mental illness..
Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Arizona Event - Mac1337 - 01-09-2011
This is the guy we are talking.The man is crazy but people are more interested in pointing out his extended magazine,
"In one of several Youtube videos, which featured text against a dark background, Loughner described inventing a new U.S. currency and complained about the illiteracy rate among people living in Giffords' congressional district in Arizona"
Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Arizona Event - Black - 01-09-2011
This post is a little surprising.
The story was breaking, people were simply trying to find out what happened and dealing with the horror and tragedy, and it was just not the right moment to bring politics into it, let alone seize the moment to launch a political diatribe, unless you were just completely unable to understand human emotions.
Feeding trolls has become an obsession here.
$tevie wrote:
1. Why on earth has everyone assumed that seeing.the.unseeable. is on the right? His posts have always been moderate- to left-leaning and he and Dakota have NEVER gotten along.
2. Is the reason everyone has jumped on seeing.the.unseeable's arse because you do believe that he is a right-winger? If you thought he was a left-winger would you have left him alone?
3. What did seeing.the.unseeable say that upset everyone so much? When Pogo says "We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us" everyone thinks it is so profound.
4. People were SHOT and DIED and you all get your panties in a bunch about what seeing.the.unseeable wrote. Nice to see you have your priorities straight.
Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Arizona Event - Black - 01-09-2011
seeing.the.unseeable wrote:Hoffe nicht.
Auf wiedersheen.
Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Arizona Event - Black - 01-09-2011
Even moveon.org had the sensitivity not to use today's tragedy as political fodder:
Dear MoveOn member,
This is a tragic day for America.
As you may have already heard, Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and 17 other people were shot today at an event near Tucson.
Right now, Rep. Giffords is in critical condition, and there are reports are that at least five people have been killed, including a young child of about nine years old and Justice John M. Roll, the chief judge of the United States District Court for the District of Arizona.
Our hearts go out to everyone affected by this terrible tragedy. We've created a Facebook page where we can all post prayers and thoughts for Rep. Giffords, the other victims and their families. You can find it here:
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=205705&id=25753-6754622-2q4x1xx&t=1
Gabrielle Giffords is an up-and-coming, shining star in Congress. Anyone who's been around her will tell you that she's smart, passionate, and one of the hardest working members of Congress. Robert Reich, one of her mentors, once said, "I wouldn't be surprised if she's the first or second female president of the United States."1
Judge Roll started his legal career as a bailiff in the Pima County Superior Court and worked his way all the way to the federal bench. He was appointed by President George H. W. Bush in 1991 and began serving as presiding judge in 2006.
This is such a terrible, confusing, awful thing. Please join us in sending your prayers and wishes to those who are suffering tonight. Here again is the link:
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=205705&id=25753-6754622-2q4x1xx&t=2
–Justin, Adam, Amy, Anna, Annie, Carrie, Christopher, Daniel, David, Duncan, Eli, Emily, Gail, Ian, Ilya, Ilyse, Kat, Laura, Lenore, Mariana, Marika, Matthew, Melanie, Michael, Milan, Nita, Peter, Robin, Ryan, Susannah, Stephen, Steven, and Tim
Sources:
1. "Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Democrat of Arizona," Almanac of American Politics, January 8, 2011
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=205704&id=25753-6754622-2q4x1xx&t=3
Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Arizona Event - Spock - 01-09-2011
Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik described the gunman as mentally unstable and possibly acting with an accomplice.
"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous," he said. "And unfortunately, Arizona, I think, has become the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot
Words have consequences.
As the Palins and Becks of this world sow, so shall they reap.
No amount of mealy mouthed condolences will absolve them from guilt.
Edit to add link.
Re: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Arizona Event - Mac1337 - 01-09-2011
It is sick. Advise is pouring in how Obama should use this tragedy to resurrect his presidency a la Clinton and Bush. Clinton (or his advisers) did bemoan that he was cheated out of presiding over 9/11.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/wtc-oklahoma-city-and-now_n_806285.html