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+--- Thread: Digital TV Antenna Signal Boosters. Opinions? (/showthread.php?tid=124378)
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Digital TV Antenna Signal Boosters. Opinions? - Chakravartin - 09-29-2011
My DTV receiver displays signal strength. I can see that below 60% signal strength, that's when the picture cuts out on my TV from some OTA broadcasters.
While I get great reception most of the time, on especially cloudy days, during storms, and late at night there are several stations with signals that drop to 50-60% strength for several minutes at a time which means there will be no picture or sound from those stations for several minutes at a time.
No manipulation of my antenna can pull in a better signal when this happens.
So, I was thinking: I have reception. I simply have to raise the quality of the signal getting to the receiver by around 10%. Going over my setup, I've guesstimated a drop of probably 10-12dB from the cables and splitter that I can't get around. I could try a different antenna or I could try an amplifier.
I'm poised to get a 19dB-UHF/17dB-VHF HDTV signal booster. 'Think that'd do the job?
Re: Digital TV Antenna Signal Boosters. Opinions? - anonymouse1 - 09-29-2011
I've had very good results with the cheapie units from Monoprice:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090102
In particular, this one:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090102&p_id=4730&seq=1&format=2
For $20, it's a no-brainer.
Re: Digital TV Antenna Signal Boosters. Opinions? - deckeda - 09-29-2011
I'm poised to get a 19dB-UHF/17dB-VHF HDTV signal booster. 'Think that'd do the job?
Two concerns, which you may or may not run into:
1) If all you need is a small bump, that one may be too strong. 3db of gain is a doubling of the signal level. Symptoms of tuner overload often resemble signals that are too weak ... just to be evil. However, if you see a wildly-fluctuating signal strength that's probably the best indicator to overload. The tuner is getting zapped with a huge signal and instantly attempting to reject it but can't. Result=low average signal and crap signal quality.
2) Do they quote a noise spec? When you use a signal amp you boost signal + noise. The cleanest amps are outdoor, mast-mounted, with around 2-4db of noise. All of the indoor amps have many times more noise.
Random ideas, not necessarily suggesitons:
A variable gain model may do the trick, as you catch the middle ground between gain and noise amplification that lets the tuner get the station reliably.
Swapping out your splitters with an amplified splitter (no separate amp) may work better (or not).
The difference between 100ft. of RG-6 vs. RG-11 is about 2db. If you have that much total cable you might get enough signal by swapping out RG-6 with RG-11, but try the amp first. And RG-6 quad shield is better at noise rejection than regular RG-6. Purge any RG-59 if you have it. Avoid cable runs near any switching power supplies such as typical wall warts or computers.
Re: Digital TV Antenna Signal Boosters. Opinions? - AllGold - 09-30-2011
I'm with deckeda, start with the splitter and cables. Do you really need the splits?
As far as an amplifier, remember Garbage in-Garbage out.
BTW, what antenna do you have now?
Re: Digital TV Antenna Signal Boosters. Opinions? - Bill in NC - 09-30-2011
I'm UHF-only and overload hasn't been a problem with my UHF-only amplifier (two closest stations 15 miles, the rest 30-35 miles, I also get two stations 60 miles away)
Re: Digital TV Antenna Signal Boosters. Opinions? - Chakravartin - 09-30-2011
> I've had very good results with the cheapie units from Monoprice
Thanks. I've been through several antennas since the DTV change. I'm kind of tired of attacking the problem on that front.
> Do they quote a noise spec?
Noise-rating on the one that I'm considering is an average of 2.8dB, which appears to be typical at this strength.
> If all you need is a small bump, that one may be too strong.
When I look at the spec's for 10dB and 12dB amps they have the same noise-rating, so if I try to match the power to my impedance loss I end up with a higher signal to noise ratio.
I think I'd rather go for higher power with the risk of over-amplification. Should go for a weaker amplifier instead?
> I'm UHF-only and overload hasn't been a problem with my UHF-only amplifier
I wish that was encouraging.
But every setup is different. Quality of the signal, antenna, cables, cable-length, splitters and receivers all play into it.
I know that it's a bit of a crapshoot whether this will work. I just want to be sure that I've stacked the odds as best I can before rolling the dice.
Re: Digital TV Antenna Signal Boosters. Opinions? - deckeda - 09-30-2011
I don't know anything about your setup to really begin recommending anything in particular. My standard recommendation is to ask here what to do: http://www.highdefforum.com/local-hdtv-info-reception-9/ After you're done messing around guessing, listen to them.
The basic recipe is this:
• the "right" roof antenna (or antennas, if necessary, and properly joined or combined to provide one downlead)
• properly grounded antenna; properly grounded mast (in addition to safety, helps with reducing static electricity, which harms the clean signal)
• RG-6 down into the house
• splitter
If with the above, the signal isn't good enough at all TVs, ditch the splitter and run a direct line to each TV you want to test. If the signal is then good, your antenna setup is probably OK and you get a mast-mounted amp to overcome line and splitter losses . But if it's not you don't have enough antenna and an amp will have a rough time overcoming the deficit. You may not want to swap antennas again but if turns out to be the right thing to do, then just do it.
Alternatively, you might still need "more antenna" even if a straight line test to each TV indicates it's OK. The reason I say this is because *only* 2-4db of gain from a better antenna is worth far more than 10-20db of amplification anywhere. Antennas don't amplify noise, amps always do somewhat. Digital TV can't tolerate much noise. This is where comparing specs will lead you astray and confused if the researched-solution doesn't pan out.
At any rate, overloading the TV's tuner can be a real problem, and if you get an amp with 10-20 or so db of boost and it doesn't help, you're experiencing too much amplification of either signal, noise or both. Just try and see if it works.
> That noise spec sounds, well, almost too good to be true actually for an indoor amp. Which models are you considering? <
*********************
Just to give you some idea of what I went through, after ignoring some sage (and accurate) advice on highdefforum.com ...
In my own case I began with too little antenna that should have worked, then got a bigger antenna which was *almost* right, then swapped it out for a better UHF and a VHF that brings in 2 channels I wanted. It was at that point I realized the 2 antennas also needed to be pointed differently---the weaker antennas never revealed that.
I combined them with a UVSJ up on the mast to avoid using a rotator. The UVSJ only represents a 0.5db insertion loss. I don't use a mast-mounted amp, but if I wanted one could only amplify the VHF antenna with the UVSJ present.
Along the way I tried a big amp (too little antenna, too much amp) that only cause overload and then the only "small" (12db gain) mast-mounted amp (still not enough antenna, too much amp) that was better but not right. When I went to the twin-antenna setup I also moved from a 5ft. mast to a 10 ft. mast. I "should" use guy wires with the 10 footer but never got around to it and it's OK.
The real test was this summer. With nearby leaves I still have reception, even when it's wet outside. Occasionally I get a few dropouts but they are very rare.
Re: Digital TV Antenna Signal Boosters. Opinions? - Article Accelerator - 09-30-2011
Chakravartin wrote: I simply have to raise the quality of the signal getting to the receiver by around 10%. Going over my setup, I've guesstimated a drop of probably 10-12dB from the cables and splitter that I can't get around.
I use and recommend the Channel Master CM 7777 low noise VHF/UHF amplifier. Mount it as close to the antenna as possible.
Re: Digital TV Antenna Signal Boosters. Opinions? - tahoedrew - 09-30-2011
I concur with anonymouse1
anonymouse1 wrote:
I've had very good results with the cheapie units from Monoprice:
In particular, this one:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090102&p_id=4730&seq=1&format=2
For $20, it's a no-brainer.
Re: Digital TV Antenna Signal Boosters. Opinions? - Black - 09-30-2011
My reception is exactly as you describe-- inclement weather causes dropouts. I moved the antenna up to the attic to have better line of sight to the source ans found that any amplification at all resulted in inability to receive >50% of channels (I get 46 OTA now.)
The guys at highdef forum said considering my location, all I'd need would be a paper clip-- they were basically right.
As deckeda said there's no way to make a meaningful recommendation without knowing anything about your setup/location/etc.