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+--- Thread: Travel Ban 3.0 (/showthread.php?tid=209158)
Travel Ban 3.0 - Lemon Drop - 09-25-2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/24/us/politics/new-order-bars-almost-all-travel-from-seven-countries.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Starting next month, most citizens of Iran, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Chad and North Korea will be indefinitely banned from entering the United States.
This time, each country has its own set of restrictions, and citizens of Iraq and some Venezuelans who seek entry will also face restrictions or heightened scrutiny.
(Does he know North Koreans are not allowed to travel abroad? They can barely travel around inside their own country...)
Re: Travel Ban 3.0 - Onamuji - 09-25-2017
Lemon Drop wrote:
(Does he know North Koreans are not allowed to travel abroad? They can barely travel around inside their own country...)
That's not totally true. They can pass through China quite easily. That's how they're getting their missile-components. They travel extensively from there with support from Chinese middle-men, primarily to Russia, Thailand, India and the Philippines.
So, a travel ban in the United States is going to affect... very few people from North Korea.
...What's the excuse for persecuting Venezuelans?
Re: Travel Ban 3.0 - Lemon Drop - 09-25-2017
Pass through China easily? Where did you hear that? Not at all what gets reported by Human Rights Watch and Amnesty INternational:
China cracks down on fleeing North Koreans: (Sept 2017)
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/09/03/china-redoubling-crackdowns-fleeing-north-koreans
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/09/18/north-korean-refugees-trapped-chinas-expanding-dragnet
(Seoul) – China appears to be intensifying its crackdowns on North Korean escapees attempting to transit through China to seek protection, Human Rights Watch said today. According to activists and North Koreans living South Korea who are in contact with people in China and North Korea, China has detained at least 41 North Korean refugees, and an undetermined number of their guides, in the past two months.
Security has been constantly increasing over the past five years in areas on both sides of the border between North Korea and China, with increased numbers of border guards and more barbed wire fencing. China has also expanded CCTV surveillance on the border and increased checkpoints on roads leading away from the border. The North Korean government systematically detains and punishes all those caught trying to leave the country without permission, as well as those apprehended and forcibly returned by China. Leaving the country illegally is a crime and those who are apprehended can be punished by imprisonment in long term prison camps for serious crimes (kyohwaso) or prison camps for political offenses (kwanliso), both of which have long been documented to be facilities where torture, starvation, and inadequate medical care are endemic.
Re: Travel Ban 3.0 - Onamuji - 09-25-2017
That's refugees. I'm talking business.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93North_Korea_border#Crossings
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/04/business/trump-china-north-korea-trade.html
Re: Travel Ban 3.0 - Lemon Drop - 09-25-2017
Onamuji wrote:
That's refugees. I'm talking business.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93North_Korea_border#Crossings
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/04/business/trump-china-north-korea-trade.html
that doesn't say that North Koreans can travel freely into China. They can't. And in recent years China has cracked down on NK'eans trying to flee. To leave NK, citizens of that country must have permission from the government, and very few people are granted that permission.
Re: Travel Ban 3.0 - SteveG - 09-25-2017
I'm surprised Nambia isn't on the list.
Re: Travel Ban 3.0 - Onamuji - 09-25-2017
Lemon Drop wrote:
[quote=Onamuji]
That's refugees. I'm talking business.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93North_Korea_border#Crossings
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/04/business/trump-china-north-korea-trade.html
that doesn't say that North Koreans can travel freely into China...
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25452941
Re: Travel Ban 3.0 - rjmacs - 09-25-2017
Steve G. wrote:
I'm surprised Nambia isn't on the list.
Nambia Pambia?
Re: Travel Ban 3.0 - Lemon Drop - 09-25-2017
Onamuji wrote:
[quote=Lemon Drop]
[quote=Onamuji]
That's refugees. I'm talking business.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93North_Korea_border#Crossings
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/04/business/trump-china-north-korea-trade.html
that doesn't say that North Koreans can travel freely into China...
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25452941
And, as a result, Dandong is full of North Koreans - party officials, businessmen and government-contracted waitresses.
Citizens of North Korea are not free to travel to other countries, including China. Doing so is restricted to well-connected people and those with special permission from the government, as stated in everything you've linked.
This lack of freedom is one of the many human rights denied North Koreans. It's important to understand that and not pretend it isn't the case. And it's a fact that makes Trump's travel ban particularly absurd.