+- MacResource (https://forums.macresource.com)
+-- Forum: My Category (https://forums.macresource.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Tips and Deals (https://forums.macresource.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Thread: A Tesla mystery: Why didn't auto-braking stop these crashes? (/showthread.php?tid=260472)
A Tesla mystery: Why didn't auto-braking stop these crashes? - Speedy - 10-07-2021
I once owned a Corvair.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-mystery-why-didnt-auto-120002222.html
On a rainy winter night in December 2019, college student Maria Smith found herself followed by a state trooper, police lights flashing, on Massachusetts' Route 24. She pulled over to the side of the road. Then: Smack! Something had hit her car from behind, shattering her rear window. “I was scared,” she said.
A Tesla running in Autopilot mode had slammed into the state trooper’s cruiser, knocking it into Smith’s car.
No one was injured in that crash, but it’s part of a sweeping investigation launched in August by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. NHTSA is looking into a dozen similar episodes over three years in which Tesla vehicles traveling at a range of speeds ran into stationary police cars, firetrucks, ambulances and other emergency vehicles, injuring 17 people and killing one.
Announcing the probe, NHTSA noted that all of the Tesla vehicles involved were running on either Autopilot or Traffic Aware Cruise Control, software systems that allow the driver to relinquish control of speed and sometimes steering while — in theory, at least — staying ready to intervene. NHTSA said it would be looking into such factors as how the vehicle makes sure drivers are paying attention and how it detects visual cues of a crash scene such as flashing lights and flares — details that an alert human driver would be unlikely to miss.
But its investigators will also be digging into a question involving a more basic technology: Why isn't Tesla’s forward collision avoidance system better at preventing crashes like Smith's — at least when the computer is driving?
Compared with so-called advanced driver assistance systems such as Autopilot, a forward collision avoidance system is relatively crude. It is designed to answer one question — is a frontal impact imminent? — and respond to danger by sounding a warning and, if necessary, triggering a subsystem called automatic emergency braking. Unlike Autopilot, which must be selected manually and is available only under some driving conditions, automatic emergency braking runs by default unless manually turned off.
First developed in the mid-1990s, automatic emergency braking is effective at preventing or reducing the severity of crashes, said David Aylor, manager of active safety testing for the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. IIHS has found that automatic braking systems can reduce the incidence of front-to-rear crashes by 50%, with better performance at lower speeds and in good visibility conditions.
“We think it’s a great technology and all cars should have it,” Aylor said.
"The benefits are pretty astounding," said Kelly Funkhouser, head of connected and automated vehicles for Consumer Reports. "It’s the one technology I would never let a family member or friend buy a car without."
Tesla calls its vehicles "," citing their combination of structural engineering and advanced technology. But when it comes to the forward collision avoidance system, Tesla owners have been reporting problems at a substantially elevated rate compared with similarly equipped cars.
In 2020 and the first three quarters of 2021, NHTSA received 131 complaints about Tesla's system, compared with 55 for Mercedes-Benz, 28 for Audi and 14 for Volvo. Each of the four automakers made collision avoidance systems standard on all its cars ahead of a voluntary industry deadline late next year.
The rate of complaints about Tesla, relative to the number of its cars sold in the U.S. in 2020, was more than three times that of the other automakers.
Re: A Tesla mystery: Why didn't auto-braking stop these crashes? - S. Pupp - 10-07-2021
“We think it’s a great technology and all cars should have [automatic emergency braking],” Aylor said.
It doesn't stop you from getting hit from behind when your car unexpectedly slams on the brakes automatically with no cause to do so, like some VW's have done.
The technology shouldn't be put to use until it has matured, in my opinion.
Re: A Tesla mystery: Why didn't auto-braking stop these crashes? - MartyStickle - 10-07-2021
There is a distinction to be made between self-driving and autopilot with respect to Tesla. I'm confused about the news reports concerning the history of accidents with emergency vehicles. Autopilot is a standard item for all Teslas and is basically a jazzed up version of adaptive cruise control. Self driving is a whole other matter. It's not clear to me under which system these crashes have occurred. As a near future Tesla owner, of course, I'm concerned. There is no way I'm paying $10,000 for full self driving (which is only beta anyway). In any case, the driver is still in command and must pay attention and be responsible.
Even my 2020 Prius has adaptive cruise control and forward collision avoidance, etc. It works great on trips, but you still have to drive!
Re: A Tesla mystery: Why didn't auto-braking stop these crashes? - Speedy - 10-07-2021
I have adaptive cruise control on my 2014 Caddy. I hate it in town because it brakes at too great a distance from vehicles ahead of me, especially those turning from a side street into my lane. It’ll brake pretty hard. Even worse is when a vehicle ahead of me turns onto a side road. Even a hint of the corner of that vehicle being in my lane causes unnecessary braking at a great distance. My adaptive CC doesn’t adapt enough for distance for urban driving. I like to use cruise control on city streets because then I can go 30 MPH (our urban speed limit) without worrying that I am going 3 MPH too fast or too slow.
Now if only the adaptive CC would stop my car when it comes up on stopped vehicles in my lane like at a traffic light or in a freeway traffic jam. But it only works if the vehicle ahead is ‘visible’ to my car and that vehicle is also moving just before it slows to a stop. But, it is 2014 tech.
Re: A Tesla mystery: Why didn't auto-braking stop these crashes? - MartyStickle - 10-07-2021
My Prius does bring my car to a stop (and then start up again) in ACC. I admit it's a bit nerve wracking at first and my foot does hover over the brake at times...but it works. I can set the distance from the car in front and I often set it to the closest setting, otherwise others cut in constantly.
Re: A Tesla mystery: Why didn't auto-braking stop these crashes? - ztirffritz - 10-07-2021
The media is largely clueless about what Tesla are doing and don't understand what's happening. Throw into the mix vehicle operators who are negligent and you have situations like this. There's absolutely no excuse for a vehicle operated by a human while on cruise control to crash into an emergency vehicle...except for human negligence. If I'm driving on the highway and I see flashing lights on the side of the road I slow down and give the police cruiser a wide berth. Clearly the vehicle operator wasn't paying attention.
Re: A Tesla mystery: Why didn't auto-braking stop these crashes? - MrNoBody - 10-07-2021
S. Pupp wrote:
The technology shouldn't be put to use until it has matured, in my opinion.
Agree. And the system used by VW Group is also in vehicles made by
other automakers. Like airbags, lots of vehicle components are supplied
to many by one primary manufacturer. Transmissions are one example.
Re: A Tesla mystery: Why didn't auto-braking stop these crashes? - space-time - 10-07-2021
ztirffritz wrote:
The media is largely clueless about what Tesla are doing and don't understand what's happening. ...
Do you?
I work for one of their competitors so I probably know something about self-driving cars.
Re: A Tesla mystery: Why didn't auto-braking stop these crashes? - Paul F. - 10-07-2021
ztirffritz wrote:
The media is largely clueless about what Tesla are doing and don't understand what's happening. Throw into the mix vehicle operators who are negligent and you have situations like this. There's absolutely no excuse for a vehicle operated by a human while on cruise control to crash into an emergency vehicle...except for human negligence. If I'm driving on the highway and I see flashing lights on the side of the road I slow down and give the police cruiser a wide berth. Clearly the vehicle operator wasn't paying attention.
:agree:
Re: A Tesla mystery: Why didn't auto-braking stop these crashes? - M A V I C - 10-07-2021
The technology is not ready for prime time, nor will it ever be. There will simply be an acceptable rate of crashes and deaths, regardless of if they could have been prevented by a skilled, human driver.
Today's systems do not understand human behavior at all. You can watch the Tesla cam crashes and see where a skilled human driver would have made a different choice. Eg, the blacked out, lowered pickup swerving between lanes five cars back will probably be erratic when it gets to you, but the Tesla will change lanes as the truck gets closer even though it's completely predictable that the driver of the truck will quickly try to take that spot.