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+--- Thread: Does it bother you using China? (/showthread.php?tid=270671)
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Does it bother you using China? - samintx - 09-15-2022
Apple using China for manufacturing communication devises. Trojan elements ?
Re: Does it bother you using China? - pdq - 09-15-2022
We use paper plates instead.
Seriously, while I think there are serious issues over IP theft that need addressing, I don’t know why we have to appoint China as our existential-threat-du-jour. Putin seems to fulfilling that role nicely (and demonstrating just how efficient autocracies are these days, economically and militarily).
PS - Foxconn (the iPhone maker) and TSMC (the Apple chip maker) are both Taiwanese, which is a decidedly different flavor of “China”.
Re: Does it bother you using China? - cbelt3 - 09-15-2022
China is the defacto manufacturing location for many products sold in the United States. In fact, defense companies are hard pressed to source many products they need from US manufacturers. This has been going on for decades.
And intellectual property theft is rampant and patent and copyright violations are completely and utterly ignored. Unless the American company has an actual manufacturing facility in China, AND has the attention and interest of the local political factions / party officials.
Two examples:
1- Broken Pottery Business
My wonderful Aunt had a business in Berkeley, CA that employed artisans that made pottery vessels that looked exactly like various vegetables... usually gourds and such. The business ran quite well and had quite the following for years.
Then a Chinese company copied the copyrighted designs. And sold them through retailers in the United States. Completely undercutting her business. She hired lawyers but was unable to get attention. And her sales dried up, and her business had to close, and talented artisans were out of work.
2- Flaming Counterfeit Machines
The company that employs me has several factories in China. And we started seeing counterfeit products appearing in the markets around the world. They looked like our products, but the serial numbers and codes were all fake. And the products were cheaply made and dangerous. We had patents and trademarks around the world, including in China. We went to the Chinese courts.
And a few months later that counterfeiting business was shut down by the Chinese military. And a photo exists of a grinning Colonel in the PRA, in fatigues, with a flame thrower in his hand, smoking a big cigar. And a huge pile of counterfeit machines was on fire in the background.
Re: Does it bother you using China? - Filliam H. Muffman - 09-15-2022
It still bothers me that company owners moved their entire businesses offshore to make another 3 cents on the dollar and screw over unions and US employment.
I think every retailer that sells ten billion dollars of product in the US needs to have at least 10% of their industry or product made here. Not just assembly: chips, displays, raw materials, staffing, etc. Especially true for anything that is considered a strategic product like single maker pharmaceuticals that have a monopoly on a drug.
Re: Does it bother you using China? - deckeda - 09-15-2022
samintx wrote:
... Trojan elements ?
Apple famously controls the whole widget. There's not going to be opportunity for China to create a chip that somehow meets spec except that it doesn't, and then Apple further can't detect it from IOS and the rest of the software they alone run.
And has been said, it's not even China, but Taiwan.
I don't really understand the concern.
Re: Does it bother you using China? - JoeH - 09-15-2022
deckeda wrote:
[quote=samintx]
... Trojan elements ?
Apple famously controls the whole widget. There's not going to be opportunity for China to create a chip that somehow meets spec except that it doesn't, and then Apple further can't detect it from IOS and the rest of the software they alone run.
And has been said, it's not even China, but Taiwan.
I don't really understand the concern.
Foxconn may be Taiwanese, but 12 of their factories are in mainland China. They have more exposure in China than TSMC which has chip fabs in Shanghai and Nanjing.
Re: Does it bother you using China? - Grateful11 - 09-15-2022
Filliam H. Muffman wrote:
It still bothers me that company owners moved their entire businesses offshore to make another 3 cents on the dollar and screw over unions and US employment.
I think every retailer that sells ten billion dollars of product in the US needs to have at least 10% of their industry or product made here. Not just assembly: chips, displays, raw materials, staffing, etc. Especially true for anything that is considered a strategic product like single maker pharmaceuticals that have a monopoly on a drug.
This!!!!! Saw 1000's of hardworking people lose their furniture and textile factory jobs to China. Just ordinary people trying eke out a living and put food on the table. They weren't asking for a lot just a living.
It pisses me off that they send this stuff to China because they say they can't compete and then turn around sell for a higher price than when it was made here.
Re: Does it bother you using China? - Rolando - 09-15-2022
I used to tell my kids the story of Sam Walton,
Sam Walton was a grade A son of a beech. He was a hard nosed businessman, wanting to eek out as much profit has he could...as long it was made in the USA.
From cookies to t-shirts, Walmart had stickers that were made in USA. If you were old and needed some extra money, he'd give you vest and a chair and have you greet customers by the door.
Walmart Restrooms were usually clean.
Then he died, and his kids 'discovered' how much profit to be made by offshoring and "rightsizing" staff.
Walmart expanded, wages stagnated, Checkers and cleaning staff were laid off. The greeters were sent home. Cookies and T-shirts come from god knows where.
Re: Does it bother you using China? - JoeH - 09-15-2022
Sam Walton also started out wanting to provide a lower price alternative to high priced goods from small town stores which jacked up their prices because they were the only ones around. Somewhere along the way he changed to small store killing by aggressively underpricing them even when they already sold goods at similar prices to his stores. Only thing he had left in his favor was the push for American made items.
Re: Does it bother you using China? - SDGuy - 09-15-2022
hmmm...something must be wrong with the forum software; I thought I had clicked on a thread about the possible cybersecurity implications of using hardware made in China, but this appears to be a different thread altogether...