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+--- Thread: The real scope behind Prop 2 (CA) (/showthread.php?tid=64218)
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The real scope behind Prop 2 (CA) - kap - 10-16-2008
I could google it but I want the whole truth nothing but the truth on that Prop; not the rhetoric from the advocates.
Re: The real scope behind Prop 2 (CA) - Harbourmaster - 10-16-2008
Wait a minute....what side of the forum am I in right now????
Re: The real scope behind Prop 2 (CA) - Greg the dogsitter - 10-16-2008
http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/title-sum/prop2-title-sum.htm ??
Re: The real scope behind Prop 2 (CA) - OWC Jamie - 10-16-2008
Make sure you read the arguments to determine whether a yes or no vote yields the result you want.
If there are many craftily worded props I'll bring a little cheat sheet in the booth with me. :-)
In Ma. we are supposed to get a mailing explaining everything.
They usually show up about a week or two before voter registration deadline.
Re: The real scope behind Prop 2 (CA) - AlphaDog - 10-16-2008
If you want the whole truth and nothing but the truth, perhaps you ought to read the statements both for and against the measure that are printed in the voters pamphlet, and then contact the interested parties who participated in drafting the arguments and stating their positions. You should be able to get a good feel for the veracity of the respective groups. Frankly, after reading the arguments, I was certainly inclined toward voting in favor of the proposition, but then I'm a real softie. Here's the online version:
http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/argu-rebut/argu-rebutt2.htm
By the way, I certainly don't believe for one instant that crowding hens in tiny cages, with tiny cages then lined up one right after the other, does anything to reduce the likelihood of spreading disease. When I see arguments that do not make logical sense to me, I get nervous.
Re: The real scope behind Prop 2 (CA) - BigGuynRusty - 10-16-2008
billb wrote:Here in California (Where Kap is) also BillB.
In Ma. we are supposed to get a mailing explaining everything.
They usually show up about a week or two before voter registration deadline.
Received over two weeks ago.
All info is in there.
BGnR
Re: The real scope behind Prop 2 (CA) - MacMagus - 10-16-2008
The cages in question are called "battery cages."
They are inhumane. Imagine being locked in a 3x5 jail cell along with 3-5 other people. Now imagine that it's part of a stack of hundreds of other similar jail cells so that bugs and feces travel easily between rows and colums.
Examples:
http://images.google.com/images?q=hens+battery+cages&hl=en&safe=off&gbv=1&ei=JJX3SNGiCaSIee2H8ZQO
[spoiler=Do not click this link unless you are prepared to be grossed out.]
http://www.upc-online.org/aart/010801.html
[/spoiler]
This is how hens live out their lives on California farms. They can't clean themselves. Their muscles atrophy to the point where many can't even stand up. Filth accumulates on their feathers, feces attaches to their legs in what grows to be giant wads and bugs eat away their skin.
The largest food-producers in the country are phasing out this method of egg-production. Many countries are considering a ban on it. The EU will ban battery cages as of 2012.
Re: The real scope behind Prop 2 (CA) - OWC Jamie - 10-16-2008
AlphaDog wrote:
If you want the whole truth and nothing but the truth, perhaps you ought to read the statements both for and against the measure that are printed in the voters pamphlet, and then contact the interested parties who participated in drafting the arguments and stating their positions. You should be able to get a good feel for the veracity of the respective groups. Frankly, after reading the arguments, I was certainly inclined toward voting in favor of the proposition, but then I'm a real softie. Here's the online version:
http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/argu-rebut/argu-rebutt2.htm
By the way, I certainly don't believe for one instant that crowding hens in tiny cages, with tiny cages then lined up one right after the other, does anything to reduce the likelihood of spreading disease. When I see arguments that do not make logical sense to me, I get nervous.
Actually, there may be a bit of merit to that argument.
When my dad raised broilers he experimented with fences to break the barns of chickens into smaller lots for some disease that they were getting. Even though they were all in the same barn, the fences contained the disease to the group within the fence. He'd lose sections instead of a whole barn. There were a few instances where he'd lose a section to an adjacent section, but not a whole barn. I don't recall if a whole barn was 2,500 birds or 10,000. Then there was some inocculation thing and barn sterilization and the fences came down because there was no longer a need.
Anyhoooo the whole battery cage thing is disgusting.
So is veal production (but tasty) .
There was an advantage to small neighborhood farms.
Large corporation farming may have brought us cheaper prices, but that's about it.
Put millions of Americans out of business.
Re: The real scope behind Prop 2 (CA) - freeradical - 10-16-2008
I vote no on probably 95-98% of all voter propositions, initiatives, and bond measures. I've even voted no on things that I generally think are a good idea, because I believe is the worst possible way of governing. We are not a pure democracy, and we never have been one! Our PAID legislators should do their jobs instead of passing the buck! I only vote yes on something if I completely understand the issue, and I'm strongly in favor of it.
So - just say no!
oapbox:
Re: The real scope behind Prop 2 (CA) - kap - 10-16-2008
We received our voter's pamphlet today.
Thanks everyone for the links.
BillB, we always bring our cheat sheets with us.