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+--- Thread: Life in prison for juveniles-- cruel and unusual? (/showthread.php?tid=87457)
Life in prison for juveniles-- cruel and unusual? - Black - 11-08-2009
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20091108/D9BRC3I81.html
Re: Life in prison for juveniles-- cruel and unusual? - cbelt3 - 11-09-2009
Keep in mind that this is not a case of life without parole for stealing a snickers bar or a bit of vandalism. This is for particularly heinous crimes that required adult-level rage and adult level psycopathic tendencies. The concept, IMHO, of "Tender years" applies much less to these offenders.
However.... I hear regularly of young gang members being talked into committing murder primarily because their tender age gives them legal "protection". And the evil adults that pushed these children into doing these acts get away scot free.
Not to mention that the Miranda 'rights' are a bit easier to skate around when you're dealing with a juvenile offender...
So I'm of two minds about this. Personally I think that adult acts should gain adult punishments, with the provisio that the youth has an adult understanding of this or her acts and the situation they find themselves in. I do not encourage the SCOTUS to create a blanket 'tender years' band aid to what needs to be a case by case situation.
Re: Life in prison for juveniles-- cruel and unusual? - mattkime - 11-09-2009
i'm curious what psychology and criminology have to say about it but they seem to be consulted precious little when it comes to these matters.
Re: Life in prison for juveniles-- cruel and unusual? - Pops - 11-09-2009
This kind of retributive punishment is wrong. It does little but cost the taxpayer more money.
Re: Life in prison for juveniles-- cruel and unusual? - cbelt3 - 11-09-2009
Pops wrote:
This kind of retributive punishment is wrong. It does little but cost the taxpayer more money.
oooh- you just kicked over the whole argument/issue. Cost Benefit of Prisons !
What is the real cost of crime ? Is the rule of law 'worth it' ? And how does one take a criminal and turn them into a useful member of society ?
Nope. I don't have an answer. I don't think anyone does. And I don't think anyone will until we develop safe and ethical ways to adjust the human brain (WELL past "A Clockwork Orange", mind you) to avoid criminality.
Re: Life in prison for juveniles-- cruel and unusual? - mattkime - 11-09-2009
>>Nope. I don't have an answer. I don't think anyone does. And I don't think anyone will until we develop safe and ethical ways to adjust the human brain (WELL past "A Clockwork Orange", mind you) to avoid criminality.
Other countries do a _far_ better job of it than we do. Perhaps we could learn from them?
Re: Life in prison for juveniles-- cruel and unusual? - Acer - 11-09-2009
In principle, life without parole seems excessive for a juvenile. I've heard of research that says there is a period in which the developing brain does not think actions through the way an adult does...and this condition lasts into the early 20s. So it's an issue of chemistry that in theory can resolve itself.
But in reality, if a 13 year old is raping the elderly (to use the case before the SCOTUS right now), I don't see much hope for him to ever keep himself from harming others.
Re: Life in prison for juveniles-- cruel and unusual? - Gutenberg - 11-09-2009
It depends on the crime. In very rare circumstances which I cannot define at the moment life without parole is just--not for punishment, necessarily, but to keep the criminal locked away and out of society.
As far as which crimes would deserve this sentence, I would have to go with Justice Potter Stewart and say that the judge would know it when he sees it.
And if the sentence passes through the various appeals unscathed, then I would say that it's an appropriate sentence.
Lee Boyd Malvo was a juvenile when he killed all those people in the Washington sniper case. He got life in prison without parole, and I think that's exactly what he deserves.
Re: Life in prison for juveniles-- cruel and unusual? - OWC Jamie - 11-09-2009
mattkime wrote:
>>Nope. I don't have an answer. I don't think anyone does. And I don't think anyone will until we develop safe and ethical ways to adjust the human brain (WELL past "A Clockwork Orange", mind you) to avoid criminality.
Other countries do a _far_ better job of it than we do. Perhaps we could learn from them?
What a load of crap.
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/01/weekinreview/europe-envies-america-now-teen-agers-turn-to-crime.html?pagewanted=all
Next try to sell the
Re: Life in prison for juveniles-- cruel and unusual? - cbelt3 - 11-09-2009
mattkime wrote:
Other countries do a _far_ better job of it than we do. Perhaps we could learn from them?
Which ones ? I'm not arguing, just seeking information. The diverse nature of our society may mitigate societal-based controls on behaviour, and may be a proximate cause of the higher level of criminality than more homogeneous societies.