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Ahhh, my Geeks HDTV tuner just got here! ... need HDTV/AV help... - Printable Version

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Ahhh, my Geeks HDTV tuner just got here! ... need HDTV/AV help... - PeterB - 04-06-2006

... I already have some questions:

1) What is the best way to do the AV hookups? I have the following equipment:

A) Radio Shack indoor/outdoor antenna, with optional amplifier-- this is one of the "stick" types; I also have a regular rabbit ears-type indoor antenna, again with optional amplification

B ) Analog (non-HD) TV with coax and four external input connectors (Inputs 1-4; Input #2 is front-mounted, so is kind of unsightly to use)

C) VCR hooked up to the TV via coax; video out from the VCR going to my AlchemyTV tuner card as the composite input (so I can watch TV on the Alchemy either via the card's tuner, or with the VCR; or play tapes, record onto computer via Alchemy; or if there is another input to the VCR, e.g., digital camera video, will show up on the computer)

D) DVD player (crappy one) hooked up to TV via S-video (Input 1)

E) DVD recorder hooked up to TV via composite cable (Input 3)

F) Second DVD player (Philips, good one) hooked up to TV via component cables (Input 4)

One question is, how to hook up the HDTV tuner so as to simultaneously supply signal to the TV, DVD recorder, and Alchemy. For testing purposes, I unhooked the crappy DVD player, and connected the tuner via S-video to the TV. I then connected the composite video cables which had been connected to the VCR, to the tuner instead. So... I can now watch the HDTV on the TV, and also have the signal coming into the Alchemy card (admittedly it's not HDTV on the Alchemy, but I don't care). So I've got two of the three... question is now how to hook up the tuner to the DVD recorder.

Related question is, what is the optimal cable types/setup to use in terms of the hookups. IIRC, component is supposed to be better than S-video, which is better than composite, which is better than coax, right?

2) I've already noticed some weird stuff about the HDTV broadcasts/reception:

A) Some stations show up bracketed on the sides or otherwise compressed. I'm guessing I have to fiddle with some aspect ratio thing to fix that? It seems to be variable by channel (with most channels having a problem of one sort or another), so hopefully if I adjust something for one channel, it won't affect all of them. If it does, I'm gonna end up having to return this thing, which would be a shame...

B ) Some stations (especially the UHF ones) show a lot of pixelation or signal going in and out. Anything to be done about this? I would have thought based on my location (see previous post here: http://forums.macresource.com/read/1/72976/72976#msg-72976, which included a signal chart (here: http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/1746/picture11ea.png)) that reception wouldn't have been a problem. Any point in hooking up more than one antenna at once?

C) At least one station I'd have thought I'd be getting, seems to be a sports channel instead of a news channel? WTH?

The picture and sound is just incredible, I just hope I can tweak this thing to take care of the above problems...

Re: Ahhh, my Geeks HDTV tuner just got here! ... need HDTV/AV help... - BigGuynRusty - 04-06-2006

Imagine how beautiful it would look if you actually had a HDTV!

BGnR

Re: Ahhh, my Geeks HDTV tuner just got here! ... need HDTV/AV help... - PeterB - 04-06-2006

BGnR, sure, when I have the bucks... don't have that yet. For non-HDTV, it looks pretty spectacular. I'm happy enough just getting a decent picture (finally).

Now how about some actually useful advice?

Re: Ahhh, my Geeks HDTV tuner just got here! ... need HDTV/AV help... - mikebw - 04-06-2006

Your question is sort of overwhelming, but let's see-

"Related question is, what is the optimal cable types/setup to use in terms of the hookups. IIRC, component is supposed to be better than S-video, which is better than composite, which is better than coax, right? "

-YES, led by DVI and HDMI, although the physical coax cable does have a greater bandwidth than composite/S-video, for your applications it should be considered the worst.

In what resolution do you view/record TV on your computer via the Alchemy?

Since it sounds like you don't have a real HDTV, and your Alchemy is not HD capable either, then you are basically limited to composite, S-video and coax.

What DVD recorder to you have? Does it have component input/output?

What TV so you have, are the "S-video (Input 1), composite cable (Input 3), and component cables (Input 4)" the only inputs?

Is this the HDTV tuner you have- LG LST-3510A? Because if it is there is a DVD player built-in.


Re: Ahhh, my Geeks HDTV tuner just got here! ... need HDTV/AV help... - Jimmypoo - 04-06-2006

$$$?

Re: Ahhh, my Geeks HDTV tuner just got here! ... need HDTV/AV help... - PeterB - 04-07-2006

mikebw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your question is sort of overwhelming, but let's
> see-

mikebw, sorry if I was overdoing the post. I'm just excited. (Big Grin

... I seem to have figured out one part of the issue:

If I use component video rather than S-video for the input to TV, I get the correct aspect ratio in the picture-- such that if I then use the 480i setting on the tuner, I can now use the "ratio" button on the tuner's remote to adjust the picture, channel-by-channel, to get halfway decent results. (I found the info to use the 480i setting in this thread over at the AVS forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7316137#post7316137)

I don't like the fact that apparently every channel broadcasts at a different ratio? Or maybe I still don't have things set correctly...

> "Related question is, what is the optimal cable
> types/setup to use in terms of the hookups. IIRC,
> component is supposed to be better than S-video,
> which is better than composite, which is better
> than coax, right? "
>
> -YES, led by DVI and HDMI, although the physical
> coax cable does have a greater bandwidth than
> composite/S-video, for your applications it should
> be considered the worst.

Yep, that's what I figured.

> In what resolution do you view/record TV on your
> computer via the Alchemy?

640 x 480

> Since it sounds like you don't have a real HDTV,
> and your Alchemy is not HD capable either, then
> you are basically limited to composite, S-video
> and coax.

The Alchemy has coax (for the tuner) input, composite (what I have now coming in from the HDTV tuner, which is working pretty well), and may also have S-vid input, though I think it only has S-vid as output.

> What DVD recorder to you have? Does it have
> component input/output?

DVD recorder is the "Newt Special" -- the Radio Shack Presidian PDR-3222... from what I can see, it has the following inputs/outputs:

coax in
composite in
component out
unfortunately no S-vid ?

... so one problem there is, if I use the component in from the tuner to the TV, I cannot connect the DVD recorder to the TV via component (nor S-vid), so that would only leave composite or coax...

> What TV so you have, are the "S-video (Input 1),
> composite cable (Input 3), and
> component cables (Input 4)" the only inputs?

TV is a Sony KV-27FS120. Five total inputs:

1) Coax
2) Input 1 -- S-vid, composite
3) Input 2 -- composite
4) Input 3 -- composite
5) Input 4 -- component

I think that's right.

> Is this the HDTV tuner you have- LG LST-3510A?

Yup.

> Because if it is there is a DVD player
> built-in.

Yup, which is why I'd think about ditching my crappy #1 DVD player.

Re: Ahhh, my Geeks HDTV tuner just got here! ... need HDTV/AV help... - PeterB - 04-07-2006

jimmy, ???

... interesting, it does seem that the UHF stations are much more prone to pixelation than VHF?

Re: Ahhh, my Geeks HDTV tuner just got here! ... need HDTV/AV help... - mikebw - 04-07-2006

About the aspect ratio- Only the component cables will carry the full bandwidth of an HD signal, and even though your TV cannot resolve this at full resolution, it can still work with it as you have figured out. Every TV program coming in through your HD tuner will be in either SD or HD format. SD is not widescreen, but since you are working in widescreen mode everything will be made to fit that, so the SD square gets stuck in the middle of the screen, effectively making your TV about 20% smaller. Sucks, but this will get better with the transition to more HD programming. There is a ratio button on your remote you can play with, also try out the zoom.

OK, so the real road block here is the fact that your TV has only one set of composite video inputs. This, as you say, will force you to decide between the HD tuner and the DVD recorder as sources for the TV.
Given that the HD tuner is the only true HD source, and that you can also use it for progressive scan DVD playback, it should be the source to use the component input on the TV.

The DVD recorder is unfortunately limited with composite as the highest quality video input offered. Did you hope to record the HDTV signal with your DVD recorder? I think the best you can do here is to hook up an antenna to the DVD recorder, then use the composite out to the TV.

All of these devices should have an antenna input and pass-through (except maybe for the alchemy) so hook up your antenna to one device first, say the HD tuner, then pass that through to the DVD recorder, VCR or whatever, then to the TV then to the Alchemy. In this way all devices will be able to use a regular OTA TV signal. As long as you use a decent well shielded coax you can make a pretty long chain and not lose quality. Splitters can cause problems, especially with an HD signal.

I think that's everything. Oh, the HD tuner has two composite outputs, so you can run one to your Alchemy and one to something else.


Re: Ahhh, my Geeks HDTV tuner just got here! ... need HDTV/AV help... - PeterB - 04-07-2006

mikebw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> About the aspect ratio- Only the component cables
> will carry the full bandwidth of an HD signal, and
> even though your TV cannot resolve this at full
> resolution, it can still work with it as you have
> figured out.

Right, though I'm going to try the S-vid cable again, just in case (it might have been something I did in the setup, rather than using the component video cables per se).

Every TV program coming in through
> your HD tuner will be in either SD or HD format.
> SD is not widescreen, but since you are working in
> widescreen mode everything will be made to fit
> that, so the SD square gets stuck in the middle of
> the screen, effectively making your TV about 20%
> smaller. Sucks, but this will get better with the
> transition to more HD programming. There is a
> ratio button on your remote you can play with,
> also try out the zoom.

Yup, just tried that, it works pretty well...

SD = what? Standard definition?

> OK, so the real road block here is the fact that
> your TV has only one set of composite video
> inputs. This, as you say, will force you to
> decide between the HD tuner and the DVD recorder
> as sources for the TV.

I assume you mean component, not composite...

> Given that the HD tuner is the only true HD
> source, and that you can also use it for
> progressive scan DVD playback, it should be the
> source to use the component input on the TV.

Right, or again if I can hook it up via S-vid, that would probably be fine...

> The DVD recorder is unfortunately limited with
> composite as the highest quality video input
> offered.

That's component again, not composite, and it's the component OUT, not component IN... so it would be a choice of which to hook up to the TV via component, the tuner or the DVD recorder. (Unless you are referring to the DVD recorder's composite in, and I'm not following what you mean...) As for how to hook up the tuner directly to the recorder...

Did you hope to record the HDTV signal
> with your DVD recorder? I think the best you can
> do here is to hook up an antenna to the DVD
> recorder, then use the composite out to the TV.

Yes, I was hoping to use the HDTV tuner as input to the DVD recorder-- not to record in HDTV (since obviously the recorder won't capture the HDTV-level quality) but just to get a clear picture. The only way I can think to do it, since the recorder has composite in, is to have the tuner have the composite out go both to the DVD recorder and the AlchemyTV card. That's doable with a set of Y-cables.

> All of these devices should have an antenna input
> and pass-through (except maybe for the alchemy) so
> hook up your antenna to one device first, say the
> HD tuner, then pass that through to the DVD
> recorder, VCR or whatever, then to the TV then to
> the Alchemy.

Just tried this; unfortunately the pass-through is only of the antenna signal (which in my case is apparently crappy), NOT of the HDTV tuner output.

In this way all devices will be able
> to use a regular OTA TV signal. As long as you
> use a decent well shielded coax you can make a
> pretty long chain and not lose quality. Splitters
> can cause problems, especially with an HD signal.

THAT is useful info for me to know, because I do have a number of splitters/combiners in the chain (splitting the antenna signal between the tuner, the Alchemy card, the VCR, etc.) I can redo this chain...

> I think that's everything. Oh, the HD tuner has
> two composite outputs, so you can run one to your
> Alchemy and one to something else.

No, it only has one (that I can see-- it has one each component output, S-video, and composite), so I would need those Y-cables...

Re: Ahhh, my Geeks HDTV tuner just got here! ... need HDTV/AV help... - PeterB - 04-07-2006

OK, now a few more questions... these relate to antenna/reception...

1) It seems that I cannot place my antenna in such a way that I can simultaneously get signal on all the major stations at once? Is that typical?

2) I've already had a couple of occasions where it seems the signal strength goes up, then down, up, down, etc. -- what is causing that? (That seems to be the source of my pixelation/lost signal problems.)

3) In at least one case, I've found that I get pretty decent analog signal with the antenna in a certain position, yet no HDTV signal. I'm assuming this is something strange? (The station in question is Channel 38-- here is that chart of mine again: http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/1746/picture11ea.png)

4) I seem to be getting, maximally, about 17 channels (including, apparently, subchannels of channels-- like one channel has four different ones). Is that typical?

5) Here's the big question. Is the HDTV reception subject to the same problems as analog as regards interference, directionality, bouncing of signals off of objects (phasing), etc.?

Thanks much mikebw (and others) for answering my inane questions!