Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot at Arizona Event

[Kiva]

very good point. I hadn't considered the IQ part. I could see somebody with some mild conduct issues and an IQ of 73 going down his path. That would explain the disjointed ramblings...however, most of what he writes on the web is spelled correctly, which is interesting. Most folks with a 70's IQ spell so bad that the spellcheck doesn't even help them.

We had a HS kid a few years back with schizo-affective disorder who was very aggressive. We thought he was fully capable of bringing a gun to school (he actually threatened to shoot me once). He had an IQ in the 70's (mostly from frying his brain on drugs) and was super paranoid and depressed. With enough stress, he could could have easily done what the Arizona guy did.

....and he'd be guilty as hell in court. I'm sure volumes have ben written as to the relationship between mental health and legal insanity. I think we, as a society, have a very strict criteria for legal insanity and we just lock up the rest or let them choose to be homeless. That was reductionistic, I know, but back to work..

thanks for the engagement; you are an enjoyable contributor to the forum.

kiva

Grace62 wrote:
Back to you kiva...

What I'm wondering about in addition to mental illness is his IQ.
More reports are coming in from teachers and neighbors who knew him when he was young, and from his string of employers. He has a lot of signs of MR, maybe not severe but low enough to keep him from developing normally. He couldn't follow or understand simple directions at school, at menial jobs, nor at volunteer jobs, leading to arguments with co-workers and eventually leading him to quit or get fired. Certainly couldn't handle normal social interactions. Sure he listed some heavy duty "favorite books" on a you tube video but there's no evidence so far that he ever read any of those.

Nevertheless I'm expecting a death penalty trial, I think most people are expecting that. The charge that's been filed makes him eligible for that, and the notes he left certainly indicate planning and intention. If not on the federal level, then Arizona could sentence him to death.
People shouldn't confuse an attempt to understand who he is and what led him to this heinous crime with an attempt to excuse him from accountability for that crime, but they will.

[Grace62]

Thanks kiva, I appreciate the work you do and I've also worked with troubled youth, it can be very discouraging and sometimes frightening. I also worked with a young man who had an IQ in the low 70's and trouble with aggression. He self-medicated with pot and energy drinks. (usually consumed 3 or 4 of those before coming to school) then smoked pot at home. (A lot of our kids with the most severe ADD went that route. Energy drinks are just more fun than Ritalin.) Anyway, Dad was also mentally ill and couldn't help the son. By age 13 he'd already been arrested several times for assault but hadn't done it at school so was with us. He was also 6 foot 4 and 240 pounds.

The thing is, we would sit together when I helped him with school work (he was at about 3rd grade level) and he would say things that were sweet and kind of deep, the whole thing was just heartbreaking, because you know that without very good and very expensive community mental health care intervention for most of his life, he's going to end up homeless and/or in jail.
I've been advocating for better mental health care for adolescents and young adults for over 20 years now, maybe this is the wake-up call that will finally lead to action.
It's hard to use cost as an excuse when you consider what this past Saturday just cost.

As for Loughner, he could have copied and pasted the you tube ramblings, there is certainly similar stuff in the fringe corners of the internet. We'll see what his handwritten notes were like, so far it seems that they contained only a couple of words.

[Mac1337]

Enough has come out to ask that idiot Sheriff what his role was in preventing this murder. The perp was a known figure to them.

[Kiva]

Dakota wrote:
Enough has come out to ask that idiot Sheriff what his role was in preventing this murder. The perp was a known figure to them.

[Dennis S]

What should the sheriff have done?

[$tevie]

He should have locked the guy up in a room with Dakota. Or is that cruel and unusual punishment?

[Mac1337]

Dennis S wrote:
What should the sheriff have done?

I have never seen a sheriff whose job is law enforcement but jumps in front of every camera that he sees and speak like a HuffPo corespondent. The basic question that the press will never ask is what the sheriff knew about Loughner and when did he know it? He is trying to muddy the waters so the question is never asked.