Installing Ceiling Fan... Wiring...

[SKYLANE]

I moved into a fairly new apartment complex, I would expect wiring to be all up to code here.

In my living room, I have two separate switches in one cover. One switch operates an outlet in the living room. The other switch has a dual slider on it for controlling fan speed and light dimming of the ceiling fan. It was installed prior to my lease.

I hope I get the terminology right here.

In the Master Room and Guest room, I want to install a ceiling fan/light in both. I picked up a fan/light combo that is controlled by a remote for both elements. Therefore, only one power lead is needed for the fan/light assembly. I bought a sensing device that flashes red when it placed next to a wire that has potential - I like to know what switches and leads are doing what before going to flip breaker off.

In both rooms, I found what I expected to see based on online videos and the instructions. There is a bare ground. There is a common. A black and a red lead, the power. Back on the wall, there is only a single switch, not a dual slider switch like the living room has. I figured the switch was for both the black and red leads together (I didn't pull switch out yet to look at it since I had not turned breaker off). Using my current sensor, regardless of the switch position on wall, at the ceiling receptacle the sensor lights up indicating the black and red leads are hot. No indication next to the common and ground, as expected. This is confusing me -- why do the black/red leads indicate potential when the switch is off? With the switch off, I would have expected no leads to light up my sensor.

[bik]

A cable with three conductors – red, black, and white – plus an uncovered ground wire would be used when you need to have a device switched from more than one location.

For instance, if you were working in a room with two doors and you need a switch by each door to control the fan, you would use this type of wire along with 3-way switches (called three way because they are intended for a setup of 2 switches and a controlled device - three total pieces).

In this scenario, red and black are both "hot" wires and the white remains the neutral.

If there is only one switch involved, usually it would use a more common two-conductor cable with just black and white, plus the ground.

This is the point where I say, if you are not 110% confident that you know both what everything connects to now, AND what everything NEEDS to connect to with the new work, you need to call an electrician.

When you start messing with wires with more than the standard tow conductors, there are suddenly multiple valid options for how something could be wired, but you need to understand which way things are wired and why. Using the wrong kind of switch or hooking up the extra "hot" wire to the wrong thing could lead to disastrous results.

[Cary]

First, do you have neutral (white) and ground in the ceiling box? Second, is theceingbox strong enough for a ceiling fan ( mounted to a stud, or a ceiling fan retrofit box?

All you need for a modern fan with a remote is power, neutral and ground. Older fans needed neutral, ground and 2 power wires - 1 for fan, 1 to lights (black and red, usually).

If you have power (black), neutral (white) and ground (bare or green) in the ceiling box, you can connect the 2 blacks together in the wall box, and cover the of with a blank plate. Then connect black, white and ground to the fan remote control box in the escutcheon, and use the handheld remote or buy a wall mounted remote. They work great, and obviate the need for the 4th wire.

[OWC Jamie]

If your ceiling device is hot and the neutral is being turned on/off black and red will be hot whether the switch is on or off.
The color of the wire going down to the switch and back up is irrelevant and some electricians will tape the white wire to indicate that it is a switch wire.

Your switch could also be hot and supplying power ( there will be extra connections and wire nuts )

black and red wires could also be for three way switches and that requires diagrams - but you should know by now if you have two switches to turn a light on.


A potential can show at a switch if you don't unscrew the bulb.

[wolfcry911]

If I understand correctly, you have a 3 wire in the ceiling box (black, red, white, and ground). But you think the red and black are hot with the switch off. If the switch was wired to cut the neutral to box it is wrong. The hot should always be switched. But it's nearly impossible to tell how it's wired without opening the switch box. I'd kill the power and open it up and see how its wired before going any further.

What was on the ceiling before? A single light? I'd be concerned about the red having power. There's no reason for it.

[TLB]

Cary wrote:
All you need for a modern fan with a remote is power, neutral and ground. Older fans needed neutral, ground and 2 power wires - 1 for fan, 1 to lights (black and red, usually).

If the fixture isn't controlled by two separate switched, this is my guess. It may have had a ceiling fan in the past. I would wire this way if I wanted the fan always powered (controlled by the pull chain) and the light switched separately. Alternately, -3 wire is used if you want to control two separate fixtures from a single switch. Are you sure both are hot or is the current sensor just picking up bleed over from the always on circuit? How are the red and black used at the current fixture, i.e., what is the red connected to?

wolfcry911 wrote: If the switch was wired to cut the neutral to box it is wrong. The hot should always be switched. But it's nearly impossible to tell how it's wired without opening the switch box. I'd kill the power and open it up and see how its wired before going any further.

I agree, you need to see the switch box to get the whole picture. If power comes to the fixture rather than the wall switch , a switch leg could be installed. You could do this with -2 wire and switch the white, but it should be marked with black tape.