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From Heather Cox Richardson's newsletter on Wednesday:
...White House National Economic Council Director Bharat Ramamurti told reporters today that “87% of the dollars…are going to people making under $75,000 a year, and 0 dollars, 0%, are going to anybody making over $125,000 in individual income.” He told them it was “instructive” to compare this plan “to what the Republican tax bill did in 2017. It’s basically the reverse. Fifteen percent of the benefits went to people making under $75,000 a year, and 85% went to people making over $75,000 a year. And if you zoom in even more on that, people making over $250,000 a year got nearly half of the benefits of the GOP tax bill and are getting 0 dollars under our [plan]."
and:
...[supporters of the plan] also note that there was very little objection to the forgiveness of 10.2 million Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans issued as of July 2022, with $72,500 being the average dollar amount forgiven.
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Acer wrote:
[quote=August West]
It is called going to a community college for 2 years and then transferring to a 4 year state school.
I used to advise this, but it's a myth. Much more money, resources, and time are wasted by doing the 2 to 4 year transfer, rather than going directly to a 4 year school.
it can work, but it's really a narrow path of prior agreement of coordination between the two schools, and it does not work well for every major. At least picking up community college summer courses for general education requirements can shave off a semester for many. After that, it takes careful planning if it can be done at all.
Agree, but the universe of such paths is miniscule when compared to overall in the system. Studies have shown that billions of dollars are lost in cash, time, and productivity.
Regarding costs, along with the student/customer centric increases, look at regulations, keeping up with the new information age, marketing, etc, etc.
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$tevie wrote:
[quote=Acer]
I would love it if this is any indication that the Democrats are going to start kicking ass at long, long last.
Credit for the new attitude at White House Twitter goes to Megan Coyne. She used to run the New Jersey state Twitter account, which if you follow it you know is hilarious and spicey. Good for the White House!
https://newjerseyglobe.com/national/mega...ite-house/
https://twitter.com/NJGov/status/1377627..._NHblus8Bw&s=19
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August West wrote:
[quote=Acer]
[quote=August West]
It is called going to a community college for 2 years and then transferring to a 4 year state school.
I used to advise this, but it's a myth. Much more money, resources, and time are wasted by doing the 2 to 4 year transfer, rather than going directly to a 4 year school.
it can work, but it's really a narrow path of prior agreement of coordination between the two schools, and it does not work well for every major. At least picking up community college summer courses for general education requirements can shave off a semester for many. After that, it takes careful planning if it can be done at all.
Agree, but the universe of such paths is miniscule when compared to overall in the system. Studies have shown that billions of dollars are lost in cash, time, and productivity.
Regarding costs, along with the student/customer centric increases, look at regulations, keeping up with the new information age, marketing, etc, etc.
How could it cost much more money? Only if the student is not given credit for any courses taken at the community college level and then has to fulfill the requirements of a private university course at a cost that they would have borne any way. That's the only way I can imagine, and I suppose it happens to some students, but not the majority. That majority would get credit from the community college transferred to the private university which then saves them tens of thousands of dollars in debt. That model is fairly common around here.
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In practice, you have to look through transfer lists that match this CC course to that college course. In PA, for our CC, only a few colleges had agreements for extensive automatic transfer. Freshman level is not so bad, but it gets tougher the higher you go. Sophomores are often taking 300 level courses already. The college registrar will make the final determination on anything that has not already been determined. Last resort is to count the CC course as an elective, but space for electives is limited, especially for some majors.
Biden's free CC initiative should presumably streamline this, but it's not streamlined yet everywhere.
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That's the only way I can imagine, and I suppose it happens to some students, but not the majority.
It happens to the majority, IIRC. Transfers will pay for many courses twice, they will delay or choose not to complete their degree, as well as other costs.
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August West wrote:
That's the only way I can imagine, and I suppose it happens to some students, but not the majority.
It happens to the majority, IIRC. Transfers will pay for many courses twice, they will delay or choose not to complete their degree, as well as other costs.
In California, it's fairly foolproof. Not only are all the courses transferable. But CC graduates are the NUMBER ONE admissions priority for CSU and UC Universities. AND, most of the transfers don't have to pay the tuition after they transfer. https://icangotocollege.com/financial-ai...ment-award
The California Community Colleges (CCC) Associate in Art for Transfer (AA-T) and the Associate in Science for Transfer (AS-T) degrees are two-year associate degrees that are fully transferable to the CSU and are no more than 60 semester units or 90 quarter units.
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C(-)ris wrote:
[quote=DeusxMac]
[quote=C(-)ris]
Can I get $20k because I have a mortgage...
As a matter of fact, the government will assist you.
Publication 936 (2021), Home Mortgage Interest Deduction
C(-)ris wrote: ... or a car loan?
IRS issues standard mileage rates for 2022
Bottom line, it's believed that it's more beneficial to society as a whole, that you get an education than that you get a car.
I would be happy to fund the student loan forgiveness as a DEDUCTION and not a CREDIT. There is a HUGE difference. A deduction will reduce your tax bill to zero and you won't owe anything, however you also will not get back more than you paid, any "refund" you get would be your own money that was withheld. Once you hit zero that is it. The Credit will provide $20k even if you paid in zero.
I have to address this, although it’s a ways back up the thread. No one is getting a tax credit or deduction out of this loan forgiveness (unless I’m mistaken). You just owe less on your student loan, up to $10K/20K less, or the remaining balance of your loan, whichever is lowest.
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To speak further to how this is implemented, a couple thoughts:
The 10K/20K comes from future payments to the government, spread over the years. Standard is 10 years, consolidation can extend it to 30. Within that are deferments, hardship payment plans. It should be accounted for in the federal budget, but it's spread over decades.
A refundable tax credit would have to be taken right out of the treasury. If it's a one-year thing, then that's all $300 (or whatever) billion right now.
A non-refundable credit, that is no greater than your tax liability, is of significantly reduced value to most people in the target range, especially if it is paid in one year. They probably owe far, far less than $10,000 in tax in a given year in their early careers when student loans are being paid. One again, people who already have money would get the benefit, those who don't would be short-changed (like most deductions and tax shelters these days.)
You could chop it up, and make it $x per year for y years, but you've just added yet another form and a dozen pages to the bloated tax code.
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pdq wrote:
[quote=C(-)ris]
[quote=DeusxMac]
[quote=C(-)ris]
Can I get $20k because I have a mortgage...
As a matter of fact, the government will assist you.
Publication 936 (2021), Home Mortgage Interest Deduction
C(-)ris wrote: ... or a car loan?
IRS issues standard mileage rates for 2022
Bottom line, it's believed that it's more beneficial to society as a whole, that you get an education than that you get a car.
I would be happy to fund the student loan forgiveness as a DEDUCTION and not a CREDIT. There is a HUGE difference. A deduction will reduce your tax bill to zero and you won't owe anything, however you also will not get back more than you paid, any "refund" you get would be your own money that was withheld. Once you hit zero that is it. The Credit will provide $20k even if you paid in zero.
I have to address this, although it’s a ways back up the thread. No one is getting a tax credit or deduction out of this loan forgiveness (unless I’m mistaken). You just owe less on your student loan, up to $10K/20K less, or the remaining balance of your loan, whichever is lowest.
Correct, my point was that I 100% do not support the way this was packaged and rolled out, it is a credit, but not on your tax bill. A credit from the government against your loan balance in this case. I would support it as a deduction whereby interest and fees are reduced to nothing, but your principal is not reduced.
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