[Eggs] Why is it so difficult to contain the Bird Flu?

[special]

NewtonMP2100 wrote:
.....birds don't use condoms....???

I though they are only hens on those egg farms.

[pdq]

I would guess that finding out one of your flock has the bird flu (requiring destruction of the entire flock) is probably not welcome news to most egg or chicken producers.

And honestly, I think acceptance of basic hygienic practices has been driven down these past few years. Better to ignore those smarty-pants experts and hope for the best. /sarc

[vision63]

pdq wrote:
I would guess that finding out one of your flock has the bird flu (requiring destruction of the entire flock) is probably not welcome news to most egg or chicken producers.

And honestly, I think acceptance of basic hygienic practices has been driven down these past few years. Better to ignore those smarty-pants experts and hope for the best. /sarc

Maybe re-cage the chickens.

[Speedy]

pdq wrote:
I would guess that finding out one of your flock has the bird flu (requiring destruction of the entire flock) is probably not welcome news to most egg or chicken producers.

And honestly, I think acceptance of basic hygienic practices has been driven down these past few years. Better to ignore those smarty-pants experts and hope for the best. /sarc

The feds pay the farmers for their destroyed flocks.

[pdq]

vision63 wrote:
[quote=pdq]
I would guess that finding out one of your flock has the bird flu (requiring destruction of the entire flock) is probably not welcome news to most egg or chicken producers.

And honestly, I think acceptance of basic hygienic practices has been driven down these past few years. Better to ignore those smarty-pants experts and hope for the best. /sarc

Maybe re-cage the chickens.
I would imagine that would make things worse. It’s not a “kissing disease”.

[JoeH]

vision63 wrote:
[quote=pdq]
I would guess that finding out one of your flock has the bird flu (requiring destruction of the entire flock) is probably not welcome news to most egg or chicken producers.

And honestly, I think acceptance of basic hygienic practices has been driven down these past few years. Better to ignore those smarty-pants experts and hope for the best. /sarc

Maybe re-cage the chickens.
That just helps the virus spread faster as the chickens are in closer confinement.

Part of the impact the avian flu is having on the egg market price is that production has become highly concentrated. As of 2023 less than 200 companies in the US with more than 75,000 hens each provide over 95% of the eggs. So one flock gets infected and culled, it takes months to raise new hens to replace them.

[vision63]

JoeH wrote:
[quote=vision63]
[quote=pdq]
I would guess that finding out one of your flock has the bird flu (requiring destruction of the entire flock) is probably not welcome news to most egg or chicken producers.

And honestly, I think acceptance of basic hygienic practices has been driven down these past few years. Better to ignore those smarty-pants experts and hope for the best. /sarc

Maybe re-cage the chickens.
That just helps the virus spread faster as the chickens are in closer confinement.

Part of the impact the avian flu is having on the egg market price is that production has become highly concentrated. As of 2023 less than 200 companies in the US with more than 75,000 hens each provide over 95% of the eggs. So one flock gets infected and culled, it takes months to raise new hens to replace them.
If you euthanize every chicken, like they're actually doing, clean the area and isolate the chickens to cages, then maybe that's it. Old fashioned chicken torture chamber.

[Diana]

This thread prompted me to check a few things. This is going to sound like a rant, and perhaps it is, but I've heard this plaint before, many times. So here ya go.

1. It's a virus. It is endemic in the wild bird population, specifically waterfowl. Hence, wherever waterfowl go there is a good possibility that bird flu is in that environment.
2. People insist that chickens run "free." This means that they don't want the chickens to be cooped up into tiny cages their entire lives laying eggs, where the cage is too small for the bird to move about. People further insist that the hens run around outside with the sun in their faces and they get to eat bugs and stuff, like God created them to do.
3. Hens get the virus from the wild bird populations from the "deposits" that the waterfowl make as they fly over. If you don't know what I'm talking about, consider yourself lucky because those "deposits" are big. And nasty. Don't live in areas where waterfowl make their flyways? Think very big pigeons pooping everywhere. Like, grackles in trees are a pedestrian biohazard (to be avoided at all costs).
4. So, the result has been the the flocks of chickens that get infected either die quickly, or get culled. Either one results in less egg production, and thus higher prices for eggs. Even hens that aren't "free-range" are susceptible.

That is the current understanding of many people. Some say to re-cage the birds, some call it Biden's fault (like any one person has control over this). Even if you stuff the birds back into their tiny cages, it won't end the bird flu problem. Because it is endemic, it is everywhere, and the workers will carry that virus into the hen house and to those captive hens, and they will die.

Yes, the virus is contagious. So the more crowded the birds are, the more likely they are to get it. I don't know if anyone has determined how separated the individual birds need to be to avoid the virus, but I don't think anyone has the facilities to do so. But you can't keep the individually, you can't mask them up, so what do you do?

Put the birds back into a protected environment, say a building with separate coops in it? This way, you can separate the hens from the environment. Vaccinate the hens against bird flu. Yeah, I said that nasty word "vaccinate" but just deal with it. There are currently several vaccines available on the market for bird flu for chickens--large operations will have an issue because thousands of birds getting vaccinated? Oh, my. Grouping the birds into separate coops is an effort to isolate them--if one group gets it, it may not transmit to another group.

ALL equipment, ALL housing, ALL personnel must be virus free. This means that ALL equipment must be thoroughly and properly cleaned and disinfected. ALL housing must be assiduously cleaned and disinfected. These things must be done on a continuing basis, because that virus shit gets in and it's game over. Bird flu is highly contagious and quite deadly to the birds. The air in the chicken building is going to need to be filtered to keep the virus out. AND the people working there are going to have to observe proper personal protective equipment protocols, not just to protect themselves but also to protect the hens. Think nearly cleanroom protections. Sounds excessive? Done every day in the animal facilities in research institutions, so this is nothing new.

But there are problems. One, the disinfection solutions (often bleach/water) will degrade and become much less effective; it doesn't take long for this to happen, and require that the workers essentially make new solutions daily. It can take a LOT of solutions. Two, people are lazy. They don't want to make new solutions, since they just make some yesterday (smells about right). They don't want to clean the coops, since they cleaned them yesterday. They don't want to wash their hands. They don't want to change their clothes, or put gloves on, or put booties on over their shoes. Or a mask on their faces. Too much work, too much trouble. They disagree on the "politics." Did I say they're LAZY??? Take your pick.

It's hard to get something that's contaminated clean; it takes hella work. It's easy to keep it clean, if you obey the protocol and take it seriously. The entire facility could be quite careful in everything they do; all it takes is one time, one person. Exposure happens. The policy at the facility can be whatever you want, but you have to catch people in the act BEFORE they get to the birds. Good luck there.

Okay. I'll stand down now.

[bfd]

pdq wrote:
I would guess that finding out one of your flock has the bird flu (requiring destruction of the entire flock) is probably not welcome news to most egg or chicken producers.

And honestly, I think acceptance of basic hygienic practices has been driven down these past few years. Better to ignore those smarty-pants experts and hope for the best. /sarc

In reality, most egg farms have strict biohazard protocols in place. Where we go, the shop is the only part of the farm that the public can set foot on. They haven't raised their prices - so far -

The small farm shop, basically a counter with a cash register at the front of a building with an egg washer and a conveyer belt, sells a dozen large eggs for $4.50, a dozen large organic for $6, and a 20-egg flat for $8. Post-It Notes show what’s still in stock as the day wears on and what has sold out.

The farm raised the price of a dozen large by 50 cents, up from $4, around a month ago. That is down from a year ago, when a dozen cost $5, Hilliker said.

… they've also avoided the flu = so far. Unfortunately, all it takes is ONE chicken down, and 30,000 chickens are doomed. The farm is considered "small" - they produce an average of 25,000 eggs/day.


“We really haven’t raised our egg prices too much,” said Hilliker, who co-owns the ranch with his sister, Lara Woliung. Their grandparents founded the business in 1942. “It’s my own costs. And, you know, what it is? We have a lot of fixed income people here, and we’re just trying to help out. I mean, I’m not going to lie: I’m a capitalist. Do I want to make as much money as I can for me and my family and my employees? Yes. But you know, you have to draw the line, you have to support your community, because your community supports you.”

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/202...State=true

BTW, Frank Hilliker is a San Diego County AG GOAT if there ever was one. Besides his unwavering community spirit, he was also among the first farmers in California to "uncage" his flock. While they don't run free in the fields - they are still housed in the farm buildings - he's made numerous upgrades to their existence. He's a true Temple Grandin of Chicken Farmers. Many of his innovations are copied by the bigger operators.

[Racer X]

Great synopsis vision.

One of my little brothers is working a contract job in Canada for a while. They don't have the problem anywhere near as bad up there. And egg prices are only marginally inflated.

The big difference is their operations are much smaller, spread throughout the country, and there are far far more. So, not dissimilar to social distancing and pods. He mentioned flock sizes of 35k, not quarter/half million on up are the norm.