Posts: 4,343
Threads: 408
Joined: Jan 2017
JoeH wrote:
Your argument is that the agreement language is easily understood by everyone who reads it.
Apparently you're having trouble understanding what I'm writing. That's not my argument at all, I even told you what my argument was, and you still missed it.
karsen wrote: My argument is that people should take responsibility for themselves.
Yeah, and I agreed with you that the paperwork can be overwhelming and confusing.
karsen wrote: For most people a home is the largest purchase they will ever make in their life. If they don't understand the agreement they should have someone who does examine it for them. Your comment about law school is right on, get a lawyer to review the agreement. I'm sorry, but I don't believe it's the government's responsibility to bail out people who are either too stupid or too lazy to examine an agreement with a 30 year payment attached to it.
Look, I'm not defending the predatory lenders, they should be prosecuted the same as any other thief.
Posts: 6,329
Threads: 1,075
Joined: Mar 2022
Reputation:
0
You know, a person's realtor usually can and does give initial advice concerning affordability. There is stuff all over the place, including the internet, on how to get the right mortgage. There are lawyers, mortgage brokers and friends, family, that will offer decent initial advice, that gets a home buyer on their route to more and thorough info.
The pitfalls of interest only loans have been in the mainstream media since the day they were offered.
Only an idiot would not question a no-doc or interest only loan.
No excuse for anyone to go into any mortgage blindly.
Anyone buying a home should be able to read and comprehend enough of the fine print to ask some questions.
All of this bailout business is a sneaky form or theft, socialism, or whatever name you want to call it. They are deciding on who to help out, when, with taxpayer money, at the expense of the rest of America.
It all stinks.
Posts: 15,842
Threads: 95
Joined: May 2025
decocritter wrote:
You know, a person's realtor usually can and does give initial advice concerning affordability. There is stuff all over the place, including the internet, on how to get the right mortgage. There are lawyers, mortgage brokers and friends, family, that will offer decent initial advice, that gets a home buyer on their route to more and thorough info.
That's nice if you can find a good realtor who will be honest with you. But unless you have a buyer's representative agreement with one or a real estate broker, they always represent the seller and they make more money in commission every time they push the price up. Have you heard some of the ads the national realtor association is putting out on radio? The market is in the tank, and they are trying to make it all sound hunky-dory.
Posts: 15,842
Threads: 95
Joined: May 2025
karsen wrote:
[quote=JoeH]
Your argument is that the agreement language is easily understood by everyone who reads it.
Apparently you're having trouble understanding what I'm writing. That's not my argument at all, I even told you what my argument was, and you still missed it.
karsen wrote: My argument is that people should take responsibility for themselves.
Yeah, and I agreed with you that the paperwork can be overwhelming and confusing.
karsen wrote: For most people a home is the largest purchase they will ever make in their life. If they don't understand the agreement they should have someone who does examine it for them. Your comment about law school is right on, get a lawyer to review the agreement. I'm sorry, but I don't believe it's the government's responsibility to bail out people who are either too stupid or too lazy to examine an agreement with a 30 year payment attached to it.
Look, I'm not defending the predatory lenders, they should be prosecuted the same as any other thief.
You keep trying to sidestep your arguments used in your initial post, I called you on it. So now it is supposed to be a "personal responsibility argument", but you never do actually show how most would have been able to tell they were going into a bad deal. The reality is that many had the agreements "explained" to them by persons thought to be giving good information. Turns out many were just "salesmen" looking for the commission and too bad for the buyer of the loan farther on and also the mortgagee. I do hope many are prosecuted, but the paper trail is going to be horrendous to follow. In the meantime, if properties and the localities where they are located are not to go swirling down the drain, something short of foreclosing on every underwater would-be homeowner is going to need to be done. What is the number up to so far this year, over a million foreclosures so far?
Posts: 40,656
Threads: 1,025
Joined: May 2025
beerman wrote:
A member of my beer brewing group was discussing this recently. He is fairly young, in his mid 20's, young married, has his first child. He applied for a home loan and was approved for over $200k even though he is the sole income for the family at under $50k/yr. He said that was bullshit so he bought a house for $135k with a 15yr loan. He is quite please with himself and so am I.
There's nothing new here. The people giving loans were greedy, the people accepting the loans were greedy and stupid to boot. What is the answer? Hell if I know but the bailout goes forward wether we want it to or not.
The primary recipients are those who require their current investments to retain their worth. Those of us 20 years away from retirement are just experiencing inflation.
Mr. Beerman. Where I live there were ZERO homes for sale at $135,000, not even in the slums. Your buddy would have needed about $450,000 for his starter home in deep East Oakland or East Palo Alto. People wanted homes and the Real Estate Brokers and Banks figured out a way to make that happen. They never thought the market would crash like this. They thought it would only get higher and higher and they could make the terms more palatable down the line somehow. How many people do you know losing their homes that have callously calculated to buy a house and stick it to the bank? I bet not a single person.
As for your friend, a $200,000 loan at a decent interest rate would suss out to around a $900 dollar a month house payment. An Apartment costs more than that. Except maybe where you live. In nearly free house land.
Posts: 8,608
Threads: 63
Joined: May 2025
Reputation:
0
There are NO "professionals" in the current real estate debacle.
Former mortgage brokers are now back to selling used cars, or offering payday and car title loans.
And as one real estate investor jokes, a Realtor™ is the only "professional" who will agree to mow your lawn to get a listing.
Posts: 7,265
Threads: 745
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation:
0
I don't think too many people want to actually suffer the consequences of letting the Big Three die and letting all the mortgages foreclose. My parents went through the Great Depression and they did not recommend it for anyone else. My mother's father managed to keep his good job with General Electric throughout the Depression, but the family was poor anyway because he was supporting up to 20 people on his salary as others in the family lost their jobs.
For every job in the automotive industry, there are seven jobs in companies that do business with the automotive industry. Think about it.
In Baltimore local small businesses would swoon every time GM had a big layoff on Broening Highway. Even now, along Broening and German Hill Road and North Point Road, there are businesses shuttered. The plant closed four years ago.
Does everyone want to just write off Michigan and large parts of Ohio, or do we want to contemplate doing with a little less and helping our neighbors?
Posts: 1,242
Threads: 200
Joined: Sep 2017
Reputation:
0
The Wall Street Bailout (or financial rescue plan if you will)?
The Big 3 already got $25B.
Helping Foreclosed home owners?
Isn't that "spreading the wealth around"?
Posts: 1,318
Threads: 353
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation:
0
Vision63, the cost of housing in your or my area has nothing to do with this situation. This is just like any other purchasing decision. Only borrow what you can afford to pay back. If you can't afford the $450k house you mentioned, then stay in the apartment. My point was that although crazy loans were made available, some people were smart enough to realize their limitations.
Posts: 2,206
Threads: 73
Joined: Sep 2010
Reputation:
0
JoeH wrote:
[quote=decocritter]
You know, a person's realtor usually can and does give initial advice concerning affordability. There is stuff all over the place, including the internet, on how to get the right mortgage. There are lawyers, mortgage brokers and friends, family, that will offer decent initial advice, that gets a home buyer on their route to more and thorough info.
That's nice if you can find a good realtor who will be honest with you. But unless you have a buyer's representative agreement with one or a real estate broker, they always represent the seller and they make more money in commission every time they push the price up. Have you heard some of the ads the national realtor association is putting out on radio? The market is in the tank, and they are trying to make it all sound hunky-dory.
When we (GtDS and I) bought our house last year we dealt with the realtor that my Brother/his wife have used for years now, and she not once tried to steer us wrong - only showing us what we had decided was in our budget, never trying to sway us into something that would be a bad idea down the line. She's an older lady, so she knows the ropes, and isn't the greedy sort herself. When GtDS's mom moved here this spring (getting out of Los Angeles before the crash) she used "our" realtor also, and that went just as well.
Maybe we are just lucky? Maybe just a teeny bit smart? (  We never yearned for more than we knew we could afford.
Kathy
|
