11-04-2012, 04:38 PM
max wrote:
[quote=max]
Actually it does, it creates two classes of abuse, temporary and permanent.
Lincoln, Wilson and Roosevelt are given some justification and placed in the first category.
Bush and Obama are placed in the latter, and Obama is rightfully classified as worse than Bush.
You need some serious blinders to avoid direct quotes describing Obama as being on top of the pile...
michaelb wrote:
You must be referring to some source other than the one you link. I don't see it reach a conclusion at all and ends with a question (it starts with questions and has questions in the middle). It mentions other people who may or may not make that claim, but makes no apparent effort to resolve the question. Is there some actual conclusion in there or quote from this author that I am missing?
Yes, starting with:
Ultimately, there are two critical factors that, for me at least, are highly influential if not decisive in determining the proper ranking. The first is the extent to which the civil liberties abuses are temporary or permanent. wrote:
Most of the contenders for worst civil liberties abuses were "justified" by traditional wars that had a finite end and thus dissipated once the wars were over. Lincoln's habeas suspension did not survive the end of the Civil War, nor did FDR's internment camps survive the end of World War II.
michaelb wrote:It does ask, and answers it as well, by limiting discussion to Bill of Rights.
How is anything Bush or Obama did worst then owning or condoning slavery? (the article of course includes this unanswered question).
Also by putting the issue in the context of the era....
Where is his ranking?
What abuses by Obama are we talking about here? Killing Osama Bin Ladin? Drone attacks? Some sort abuse of power in the US? Tell me about real actual impacts not some theoretical fear of how the US is becoming a fascist state.
To the extent I can even discern the articles point, FDR would have to be the worst on his metrics. He imprisoned thousands of US citizens without trial or legal justification; failed to intervene and stop the holocaust, and killed millions of innocent japanese civilians, including dropping two atomic bombs on them after they were willing to surrender just to prove a point to Russia.