05-15-2007, 11:16 PM
[quote trisho.][quote Kiva][quote trisho.][quote $tevie][quote Kiva]For those of you who wish to react to Falwell's anger and hatred w/ more hatred, I have this, by Frederick Buechner:
"Of the Seven Deadly Sins, anger is possibly the most fun. To lick your wounds, to smack your lips over grievances long past, to roll over your tongue the prospect of bitter confrontations still to come, to savor to the last toothsome morsel both the pain you are given and the pain you are giving back -- in many ways it is a feast fit for a king. The chief drawback is that what you are wolfing down is yourself. The skeleton at the feast is you."
Falwell was a man so full of fear. If you hate him right back, you're just as bad as he was.
kiva
I agree with you up to a point. But I don't think a moment or two of disrespect is nearly the equivalent of an entire lifetime spreading hate and fear. I doubt if anyone on this thread actively hates Falwell to the point of savoring to the last toothsome morsel. Well, except perhaps for chas_m.
Definitely agreed with $tevie. I didn't say I hated Falwell. I was saying I'm just glad he's finally dead. And Strom Thurman. Anger and Glee are two different sentiments.
I think you may be missing the point of the quote. To dance on somebody's grave does nobody any good but feed a part of you that doesn't need feeding. this is not to say that anger is something that isn't useful, at times...think of it as the 'fuel' that gets things going. But, when it starts influencing beyond that, it becomes a problem and, IMO, doesn't help anybody.
I feel empathy for a man who appeared to live such a miserable existence and even more empathy for all the people who submitted to his influence. We need to continue to speak out against such injustice and bigotry; I hear what you're saying about the "moment or two" not being equivalent to the anger Buechner refers to..that makes sense. but pissing on somebody's grave (chas_m ;-) or being happy they're dead - that's a bit different. I just don't see how that helps anybody.
Don't get me wrong....it takes a *lot* of effort for me not to say "rot in hell, you bastard"....but I just don't see how that helps. it just further propagates the very thing that made us so disgusted by the man in the first place.
good discussion...
kiva
And how does it help anybody to be glad he's dead? It gives you a sense of hope and renewal that another supreme douche bag leader that a LOT of people listened to is now gone. What's left is to hopefully combat the remaining crowd that is now sans leader and is possibly fractured and questioning the movement.
I see what you're getting at. Thanks for the clarification. Personally, the well of hope I choose to drink from is more about the hope that people do evolve and change and that most people, when treated with love, figure out that people like Falwell are full of it. I don't always stay there, but it's the one that is best for me.
I also think that just because he's dead, things are unlikely to change. He'll just be replaced by another ignorant, fearful man calling himself a christian but doing almost nothing that Jesus would have wanted.
I guess that, for me, I feel my energies are best spent elsewhere. I hear what you're saying though as far as severity of feeling and that has some validity. Depends on the individual. I've spent enough of my life in the place of anger and judgement that I don't need any more reinforcement there :-) I just see so much polarization and us vs. them in the media and other parts of society...i'm just done contributing to it..even if just in thought...
though i'm sure i'll screw up later today...constant battle, i guess..
kiva
"Of the Seven Deadly Sins, anger is possibly the most fun. To lick your wounds, to smack your lips over grievances long past, to roll over your tongue the prospect of bitter confrontations still to come, to savor to the last toothsome morsel both the pain you are given and the pain you are giving back -- in many ways it is a feast fit for a king. The chief drawback is that what you are wolfing down is yourself. The skeleton at the feast is you."
Falwell was a man so full of fear. If you hate him right back, you're just as bad as he was.
kiva
I agree with you up to a point. But I don't think a moment or two of disrespect is nearly the equivalent of an entire lifetime spreading hate and fear. I doubt if anyone on this thread actively hates Falwell to the point of savoring to the last toothsome morsel. Well, except perhaps for chas_m.
Definitely agreed with $tevie. I didn't say I hated Falwell. I was saying I'm just glad he's finally dead. And Strom Thurman. Anger and Glee are two different sentiments.
I think you may be missing the point of the quote. To dance on somebody's grave does nobody any good but feed a part of you that doesn't need feeding. this is not to say that anger is something that isn't useful, at times...think of it as the 'fuel' that gets things going. But, when it starts influencing beyond that, it becomes a problem and, IMO, doesn't help anybody.
I feel empathy for a man who appeared to live such a miserable existence and even more empathy for all the people who submitted to his influence. We need to continue to speak out against such injustice and bigotry; I hear what you're saying about the "moment or two" not being equivalent to the anger Buechner refers to..that makes sense. but pissing on somebody's grave (chas_m ;-) or being happy they're dead - that's a bit different. I just don't see how that helps anybody.
Don't get me wrong....it takes a *lot* of effort for me not to say "rot in hell, you bastard"....but I just don't see how that helps. it just further propagates the very thing that made us so disgusted by the man in the first place.
good discussion...
kiva
And how does it help anybody to be glad he's dead? It gives you a sense of hope and renewal that another supreme douche bag leader that a LOT of people listened to is now gone. What's left is to hopefully combat the remaining crowd that is now sans leader and is possibly fractured and questioning the movement.
I see what you're getting at. Thanks for the clarification. Personally, the well of hope I choose to drink from is more about the hope that people do evolve and change and that most people, when treated with love, figure out that people like Falwell are full of it. I don't always stay there, but it's the one that is best for me.
I also think that just because he's dead, things are unlikely to change. He'll just be replaced by another ignorant, fearful man calling himself a christian but doing almost nothing that Jesus would have wanted.
I guess that, for me, I feel my energies are best spent elsewhere. I hear what you're saying though as far as severity of feeling and that has some validity. Depends on the individual. I've spent enough of my life in the place of anger and judgement that I don't need any more reinforcement there :-) I just see so much polarization and us vs. them in the media and other parts of society...i'm just done contributing to it..even if just in thought...
though i'm sure i'll screw up later today...constant battle, i guess..
kiva