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As a professor, I think what we're seeing is the outcome of an emphasis on "retention" and "graduation rates." We get hit with that every year because "THE LEGISLATURE IS WATCHING AND IF OUR RETENTION/GRADUATION RATES DOESN'T GO UP THEY WILL CUT OUR FUNDING!!!!!!!!" Heaven forbid they cut our funding, so there is a substantial pressure to give good enough grades to get 'em out. Add to that the fact that enrollments skyrocket in bad economic times. We are bursting at the seems with students, many of whom are not well-prepared for college-level work and yet we are supposed to retain and graduate increasing numbers...
As a father of a recent grad from Vanderbilt, my daughter has told me that it was pretty typical for students to get pretty good grades with moderate effort but it took a lot of work to get very high grades consistently. Maybe the "gentleman's C" has become the "gentleman's B."
Oh, by the way, I discovered earlier tonight that grade distributions for individual faculty members are available at a site called courserank.com. Just wait until that becomes widely recognized among students!
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I could go into considerable detail on this subject... but I've been working in the rain most of the day, and I'm tired, and cold, and hungry.
So I'll give my short answer; Yes. Most (not all) colleges, and most (but not all) degree programs are "dumbed down" nearly to the point of uselessness.
Major exceptions are many fine engineering, hard science, and medical programs at some outstanding universities.
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College to me was not about academic achievement, or social ineptitude :wink:, but truly was about having the chance to argue, properly, with people who gave a damn about the subject under discussion.
Admittedly I did not pay to go to college (university), being in the last year that it was free in England, and I always choke a little when I think about my daughter here in the States and what her educational future might bring.
I am torn.
I believe that higher education serves a great purpose, and knowledge is always worth pursuing, but I don't necessarily think that the American College system (never having gone through it, mind) is the right educational vehicle.
As always, it comes down to the individual and their approach.
If you are ready to learn, you will. If getting drunk and getting laid are more important than learning, then you will get drunk and get laid.
Possibly the drinking age and age of consent might have something to do with things.
At least I have a few years to spare before the decisions are crucial.
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mattkime wrote:
probably true for many. except those that challenge themselves.
I would have to agree with mattkime. I know a few college grads that have a degree and they didnt challenge themselves. I had wondered how these fsckers made through college, then i realized that most of them had degrees in: liberal arts (not bagging on anyone here with a libral arts degree) or a foreign language degree (they majored in their native language - duh!!).
Critical thinking is a skill one must be taught.
"Students are hitting the books less and partying more. Easier courses and easier majors have become more and more popular." This quote here is one of the reasons employers have job fairs, to weed out the flakes. As mentioned earlier, I know some people with college degrees that have a job that doesn't relate to their major or are jobless.
Joe Carm
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the MA is the new BA, and you can't get into the Masters programs without your BA, so....
really, the question here should be: is college necessary - at all?
parents are scared stiff of not sending their kids or encouraging them to attend college because the "alternative" has always been differentiated by class and its cousin, socioeconomic status.
listen to this show to get a little bit of an idea of what is possible (it's not as good a show as it could have been, IMO).
http://onpoint.wbur.org/media-player?url...o-college/&title=Should+Everybody+Go+To+College%3F&pubdate=2011-03-02&segment=1
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I think there is a lot of truth to what Manlove says, but I also believe that K-12 educators and school boards are to blame for this phenomenon. Every parent wants to believe that their child is just as smart or accomplished as the other students. Of course, this is extremely unrealistic but nobody wants to be the one to say so. Fact of the matter is, parents do not want to hear anything that might reflect poorly on the job they did raising their kids.
Our local urban school district boasts that their goal is to ensure that every student is "college ready" by the time they graduate. Great soundbite, but all this does is encourage students to overestimate their readiness for college.
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I'd agree that I think it's "probably" too easy in general. Even when my wife was going for her doctorate I used to joke that it was more a matter of endurance ( a time commitment, mostly) and financial fortitude that allowed for most degrees (including advanced degrees).
What I am certain of is that it is far too easy to get into college here in the US. If it was more difficult we'd be better off on many fronts as a nation. There'd be a domino effect if only the people that really put forth the effort to get there could go. I'd make sure that funds were still available for anyone that showed they really earned the chance to go. I could go on and on about the whole thing but...
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Paul F. wrote:
I could go into considerable detail on this subject... but I've been working in the rain most of the day, and I'm tired, and cold, and hungry.
So I'll give my short answer; Yes. Most (not all) colleges, and most (but not all) degree programs are "dumbed down" nearly to the point of uselessness.
Major exceptions are many fine engineering, hard science, and medical programs at some outstanding universities.
I'd have to disagree about engineering programs. Those grads certainly have a good shot at jobs when they graduate, at least until they hit mid-career and can be replaced with cheaper younger models.
The kids I know in those programs are taking only math and science, from freshman year. They think that because they took AP English and History and a couple of years of Spanish, they are done with that type of education. They have in no way developed strong critical thinking skills only from those courses, and won't be good writers, readers, or thinkers on important social issues. I'm seeing this happening first hand with some kids I know, and it's one reason I want to see my own kids pursue rigorous liberal arts education at the college level. They need that foundation, regardless of which career they pursue.
If the colleges have made those courses too "dumbed down," then that needs to change.
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My pre-school was so tough you had to take the PKAT!
(Pre-K Aptitude Test)
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In all seriousness... when the "headhunter" has to make an appearance, I always tell students or wannabe
college students, that if they don't know what they want to be, and aren't following some passion like
art or music, that when they graduate, they MUST be something.
Something -- like "accounting=accountant" - engineering=engineer, teaching=teacher, nursing=nurse.
If you get a soft degree... you'll have nothing unless you go to grad school, (such as a psychologist or
a social worker) - and worse yet, if you have a degree in business or marketing, when you are unemployed,
you are literally nothing until you are employed again.
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