Shorting has entered the political arena

[Sarcany]

We're going to find out who is running the country in a very short time.

Because if Wall Street is calling the shots then short-selling will not be regulated, but coordinating your ordinary purchases with others online will be made unlawful.

[hal]

sekker wrote:
[quote=hal]
It appears that 100s of people joining together can dictate the market. If this is allowed to stand, these groups will grow to 1000s then millions. Then there will be no marketplace at all. If this isn't illegal collusion, it should be.

I don't see an equivalence of this group and a hedge fund. This is a mob against a single entity.

Non-sense. There is no law that requires hedge funds to be financially viable. Most of the 'mob' would lose money if there were no short sellers.

I have a simple test - if the retail traders who bet against the company did not exist, would the 'mob' lose money? If so, there is no reason for laws as the market will protect most against this behavior.

Simple - if banks or fund managers don't want to lose money betting on failure, they can just stop shorting stocks.
Oh, you're anti short selling....

what if this group pulled the opposite move - sold short until the hedge fund going long goes bust? Or what if a bunch of hedge funds colluded and did the same thing the redit group did?

I don't like the idea of large groups colluding to change the marketplace to their advantage (short or long). This is bad...

[sekker]

hal wrote:
[quote=sekker]
[quote=hal]
It appears that 100s of people joining together can dictate the market. If this is allowed to stand, these groups will grow to 1000s then millions. Then there will be no marketplace at all. If this isn't illegal collusion, it should be.

I don't see an equivalence of this group and a hedge fund. This is a mob against a single entity.

Non-sense. There is no law that requires hedge funds to be financially viable. Most of the 'mob' would lose money if there were no short sellers.

I have a simple test - if the retail traders who bet against the company did not exist, would the 'mob' lose money? If so, there is no reason for laws as the market will protect most against this behavior.

Simple - if banks or fund managers don't want to lose money betting on failure, they can just stop shorting stocks.
Oh, you're anti short selling....

what if this group pulled the opposite move - sold short until the hedge fund going long goes bust? Or what if a bunch of hedge funds colluded and did the same thing the redit group did?

I don't like the idea of large groups colluding to change the marketplace to their advantage (short or long). This is bad...
Hedge funds have been doing this kind of aggregation etc for years. The current situation is putting everyone on the same level.

I concur with almost all of the detailed views represented in this podcast: https://soundcloud.com/twistartups/twist-e1167

[Lux Interior]

Acer wrote:
Oops, the unwashed masses crashed the rich people's dinner party. Capitalism for me, but not for thee.

A pillar of American Capitalism (as in the military) is that sh-t flows downhill, i.e. you cannot f* over those above you in the food chain.

If you do, you had better do it quickly and have some friends who are also above your target on the food chain.

If not, then you find that those toothless laws that never get used on financial shenanigans are suddenly putting you in jail.

[mattkime]

I really don't understand the idea that short selling shouldn't be allowed. I understand that some people don't like it but I haven't heard why it shouldn't be allowed.

IMO this is all chaos monkey behavior. We'll see if the individuals (rather than the money managers) involved will have the stomach for another round. There's nearly no situation where they get out of this without losing a large amount of money.

[Speedy]

Robinhood will allow limited buying of restricted securities Friday, GameStop jumps after hours

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/robinhoo...hours.html

[Spock]

mattkime wrote:
I really don't understand the idea that short selling shouldn't be allowed.

You think it's OK to sell something you don't own?

[sekker]

Spock wrote:
[quote=mattkime]
I really don't understand the idea that short selling shouldn't be allowed.

You think it's OK to sell something you don't own?
And doing so in a way that the person financially benefits from the thing they purchase deprecates?

This leads to massive financial conflict of interest for short sellers to ignore data, misrepresent data, or out and out fabricate data. The most overt example was the short seller who got an early Tesla and literally drove it until the battery ran out, had it towed, then lied that he never knew it was running out of range. Why? To generate negative press to financially benefit.

We are in a once-in-a-century pandemic. We have vulnerable parts of our society, that through no fault of their own they have financial issues, and they may very well come back fine once we have this all under control. Short sellers are like sharks in the water and are trying to kill off these companies.

I'm fine when the tiny sharks come in and settle things their way.

[hal]

Everyone loves seeing a hedge fund go under, but what if it's a pension fund that goes under next - YOUR pension fund?

Large groups dictating the market is bad - you can whatabout it all you like, but I still content that investment mobs should be illegal.

[sekker]

hal wrote:
Everyone loves seeing a hedge fund go under, but what if it's a pension fund that goes under next - YOUR pension fund?

Large groups dictating the market is bad - you can whatabout it all you like, but I still content that investment mobs should be illegal.

I do not want my pension fund putting money in ANY hedge fund.

Your statement has at its root a false equivalency. These hedge fund managers have been able to manipulate the stock market for 150 years.

Please listen to the podcast link I posted. Hedge fund managers make big bets, take the money when it works, then spreads the risk to ALL OF US when they lose. That is wrong.

At least these smaller bets, times 1000, if they were to fail they would not have to be bailed out by the government.

I encourage you to learn more.