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the way I understand it ... if a cop asks you your name, you are OBLIGED to give it or you are breaking the law. Again, this was a recent SCOTUS decision, IIRC. You do NOT have to be under arrest FIRST.
Again, that is MY understanding... I could be wrong. Probably am. But I will conduct myself in a manner such that I WILL identify myself if asked.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:fxF...reme+court&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&lr=lang_en&client=firefox-a
....
It was all captured on video, so you can play along at home. The crucial bit is where Hiibel is asked 11 times to identify himself, and—not knowing why the cop is asking—he refuses. The cops arrested him and charged him for that refusal.
....
When I say 'under arrest' I mean not an arrest-able offence. Like watering your lawn too little. But, in trying to find out WHO to CITE, the office conducting his business asks the person to ID themselves and THEN in refusing to do so, can pull that charge on them.
I would say NO ONE really likes it, but that's the state of affairs we find ourselves in today.
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So why was he at her home in the first place?
It was because she hadn't watered her garden, so it did have something to do with the case.
Maybe a lack of communication with this elderly lady was the main problem.
That is still no excuse for the heavy handed tactics used.
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Bernadette,
True. The officer was there to cite her for violating the law in regards to watering her lawn. However, the rest is a direct result of her actions. No arrest would have been made if the woman had simply given her name to the officer and remained in place. She chose to not give her name to him and started to go inside and close the door. While the tactics might be heavy handed, the cop was again following the law and doing his job. Funny, none of the articles offer any details about the other options available to the officer in reference to the situation.
Robert
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So any cop can go door to door to give people a ticket for some mostly bogus reason and arrest everybody that does not give their name? Sounds like a Totalitarian state to me.
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Filliam,
Nopes. It's simply the law. Follow said law and it's a non-issue. It'd be a different matter entirely if a cop could walk up and arrest you without any cause at all or one created out of thin air for the sake of convenience. That'd be a totalitarian state.
Robert
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Giving someone a ticket for not watering their lawn sounds pretty darn close to "created out of thin air" to me.
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Filliam,
Actually, not at all. Consider. In my parent's town, they cannot install a shed. They can repair an existing one but not build a brand-new one. They can get cited for building one. Outof thin air? No. Ridiculous? Yes, as far as I'm concerned but well within the law even if I disagree with it.
Robert
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Well jp!, your feigning of ignorance doesn't wash. Your thread title clearly implies that she was arrested for refusing to water the lawn and you provided no post content indicating otherwise. You are guilty as charged!
In our town there's a higher likelihood that you'd be given a ticket for watering the lawn, since we live in the arid west and almost certainly have impending water shortages and rationing coming up.
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If the city wants to send you a fine, don't they typically do so through the mail? I'm wondering why an officer was on her property, physically grabbing her, without a warrant. I don't believe the SCOTUS decision mandating ID applies if you are in your own home, and I also think the zoning ordinance for not watering your lawn is dubious; unless you live in a HOA, you shouldn't have to maintain an immaculate golfing green.
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[quote Marc Anthony]If the city wants to send you a fine, don't they typically do so through the mail? I'm wondering why an officer was on her property, physically grabbing her, without a warrant.
If you've seen pictures of her property, I'd guess that NUMEROUS mailed citations had been sent and ignored.
Most municipalities try sending those tickets/citations in a non-legal manner (ie: not served properly by a peace officer who guarantees identification, as in a subpena). Ignored, they have no legal standing, hence a final attempt is by an officer.
That said, I have NO opinion on whether they were "correct" in citing her or making an arrest.
