Over 2 Trillion tons of ice melted in arctic since '03

[Mac1337]

I won't ride a bicycle to work, stop burning wood in the fireplace, stop air travel, work in a hot office, wear sweats at home, or drive a two door Yaris. Other than that, how can I help with global warming?

[rgG]

Dakota wrote:
I won't ride a bicycle to work, stop burning wood in the fireplace, stop air travel, work in a hot office, wear sweats at home, or drive a two door Yaris. Other than that, how can I help with global warming?

Could you turn off the lights when you leave a room, recycle, combine trips when possible...the list goes on and on and on.

[Black Landlord]

Dakota wrote:
I won't ride a bicycle to work, stop burning wood in the fireplace, stop air travel, work in a hot office, wear sweats at home, or drive a two door Yaris. Other than that, how can I help with global warming?

Seems like you're already helping global warming enough.

[Mac1337]

rgG wrote:
[quote=Dakota]
I won't ride a bicycle to work, stop burning wood in the fireplace, stop air travel, work in a hot office, wear sweats at home, or drive a two door Yaris. Other than that, how can I help with global warming?

Could you turn off the lights when you leave a room, recycle, combine trips when possible...the list goes on and on and on.
Yeah, I am doing all of that actually but they are not nearly enough. Global warming crowd won't rest until they put all of us back in the caves. A little exaggeration, but not much.

[Wags]

Dakota wrote:

Yeah, I am doing all of that actually but they are not nearly enough. Global warming crowd won't rest until they put all of us back in the caves. A little exaggeration, but not much.

That is more or less true unless we do something about the global population. Regardless, we'll need to build a big wall around the US and deploy the navy to escort the oil tankers in.

[michaelb]

Wags wrote:
[quote=mattkime]
>>Lets set aside the argument over belief

ug, i'm probably over analyzing your words but i really don't like it when people talk about the "belief" of global warming in order to equate it with religious belief. the conclusion that global warming is real is based on the scientific interpretation of physical evidence. religious beliefs are not contingent on such evidence.

I totally agree with you, that's why I italicized the word. I was going to discuss the difference between a belief and a scientific theory but it seemed like it deserved a separate thread. Its sort of like how the religious zealots try to reject evolution because, well its only a theory. Sure, but its a scientific theory that has a preponderance of evidence to support it and none to refute it, it is predictive and testable. Evolution is a theory much like gravity is a theory. Global warming is that type of theory although not yet as well understood due to the complexity of weather systems.
Global warming is both a belief system and a scientific theory. There is a lot more uncertainty in the scientific theory then the belief system acknowledges. Mattkime and I had this disagreement last week here.

The arctic is a good example. It is not clear that any recent warming in the arctic has been "caused" by anthropomorphic global warming. Cyclical shifts in water currents trends in the pacific are also likely to be involved. Also, there are a lot of gaps in the data on arctic temperature, since it is not monitored that systemically, and the data set is not nearly as old or as complete as for other regions. Melting ice suggests an increase in temps, but I don't know if we have actual valid measurements of increased temps over a time scale relevant to AGW. The trends in Antarctica have also not been consistent with warming there.

[Mac1337]

What I want to know is how did the last ice age end and who was burning fossil fuels then?

[Wags]

michaelb wrote:

Global warming is both a belief system and a scientific theory. There is a lot more uncertainty in the scientific theory then the belief system acknowledges. Mattkime and I had this disagreement last week here.

The arctic is a good example. It is not clear that any recent warming in the arctic has been "caused" by anthropomorphic global warming. Cyclical shifts in water currents trends in the pacific are also likely to be involved. Also, there are a lot of gaps in the data on arctic temperature, since it is not monitored that systemically, and the data set is not nearly as old or as complete as for other regions. Melting ice suggests an increase in temps, but I don't know if we have actual valid measurements of increased temps over a time scale relevant to AGW. The trends in Antarctica have also not been consistent with warming there.

This is true, hence my caveat that the theory is still not well understood. The problem, as you point out, is that to test the theory it must be done over geologic time. Unfortunately we do not have the luxury of waiting a couple of millennia to see if we are right or not. It is not in dispute that we have injected a massive and unprecedented quantity of carbon and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and it is pure hubris to think there will be no consequence from that. But why stop there? We've also pumped insane amounts of known toxic chemicals into the environment and worse, into our drinking water, with no clue as to what the long term health effects will be.

[Black Landlord]

Dakota wrote:
What I want to know is how did the last ice age end and who was burning fossil fuels then?

Got a lock. SDguy.

[Mac1337]

Black Landlord wrote:
[quote=Dakota]
What I want to know is how did the last ice age end and who was burning fossil fuels then?

Got a lock. SDguy.
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