Exactly when should I be turning on every light & appliance I own??? I'm not really sure on this--can I have a date & ti

[swampy]

I do my share of going without electricity days at a time when a hurricane blows through. One hour...ppptht no big deal.

[cbelt3]

Dak--
The only reason we're not looking at rolling blackouts country-wide is that we're in a recession/depression. Our generating and transmission capacity is less than our demand, overall. Where did I learn this ? Direct from an engineer who works with this sort of thing at our local generating facility.

Let's face it- we have a huge demand for electrical energy. Reducing the demand by using lower powered devices is a big step. Electrical efficiency improvements have been significant in the last 10 years (anyone else here know about the NEMA HIgh efficiency mandate on electrical motors in the late 90's ?).

While the consumer selling point on energy efficiency is energy cost savings, from the industrial side its about overall cost reduction- if the demand is less than the capacity, costs go down. If it's more, they can pay for those highly expensive portable turbine generators that run on diesel or natural gas.

Electrical capacity on this nation is a house of cards, or have you forgotten the nationwide blackout earlier this decade ?

[Dennis S]

"No more useful than sleeping in a cardboard with the homeless for a few hours then leaving them for the warmth of their gated community."

And leave the homeless to the warmth of their grated community.

[davester]

Actually, if your house is typical and you haven't done any electricity conservation measures before, reducing your electrical use by half is relatively easy and involves no real sacrifices, just a few thought processes (sadly lacking in too many). Before putting the solar array on our roof (which generates about 90% of our electricity), we went through the house and looked at all the consumption and realized that there was a lot of waste that didn't result in any benefit at all to us. As Steve Chu (the new Nobel Prize winner Secretary of Energy notes, conservation is like the fruit lying on the ground. Virtually no effort for few gains. A few reconfigurations, a few purchases and we slashed our home use by more than half. That saved us a bunch when we moved to solar too.

I am puzzled by the defeatist rantings of people like tron and dakota. It's as though they are hoping that ill will come to our country just so they'll be able to justify their hatred of "libruls".

[Mac1337]

davester wrote:
Actually, if your house is typical and you haven't done any electricity conservation measures before, reducing your electrical use by half is relatively easy and involves no real sacrifices, just a few thought processes (sadly lacking in too many). Before putting the solar array on our roof (which generates about 90% of our electricity), we went through the house and looked at all the consumption and realized that there was a lot of waste that didn't result in any benefit at all to us. As Steve Chu (the new Nobel Prize winner Secretary of Energy notes, conservation is like the fruit lying on the ground. Virtually no effort for few gains. A few reconfigurations, a few purchases and we slashed our home use by more than half. That saved us a bunch when we moved to solar too.

I am puzzled by the defeatist rantings of people like tron and dakota. It's as though they are hoping that ill will come to our country just so they'll be able to justify their hatred of "libruls".

OK, show me how "reducing your electrical use by half is relatively easy and involves no real sacrifices". I'll be stupid not do it but I want specifics.

[Carnos Jax]

Here's one to get you started:
-programmable thermostats (google it)

[cbelt3]

Dakota- I'm not buying the immediate energy savings of 50% number noted above for everyone- I expect that's for those people who have been profligate in their waste of energy and suddenly get the message. The cheapest things to do are the basics, that involve minimal cost.
0- Be energy aware. The "Kill a Watt" cult was all over that.
1- "Turn it off".
2- Replace incandescent light bulbs
3- Turn back the thermostat

Moving forward involves costs. Such as:
1- Repair / seal drafts
2- Storm doors on the outside
3- Insulate the attic (WAY more than the specs of the 90's. I believe it's like R34 now ? )
4- Insulate the walls
5- Replace windows with low-e thermopanes
6- replace exterior doors with insulated/ sealed doors.
7- High efficiency furnace
8- High efficiency Air Conditioning
9- High efficiency appliances
10- Geothermal (think 'heat pump' that uses a working fluid in the ground)

After that, you get into alternative off grid thinking where you use alternative sources to generate power, which is essentially local power generation. It's not conservation per se, and doesn't come under the aegis of this discussion.

National Geographic had a good article last month. It was a little 'carbon footprint' preachy, which isn't a good sole reason from my perspective, but saving cost and energy is a good goal regardless of the political / scientific rationale behind it all.

[Bill in NC]

After relamping to CF and installing programmable thermostats add'l residential energy conservation requires some serious money (e.g. new windows, new HVAC)

That 2kW solar install davester has would be over $10,000 in most states (CA currently offers a huge subsidy)

[Mac1337]

Thanks for the suggestions. We live in a new construction so there is little left to do on the list. Turning off unneeded lights are perhaps the only thing left. Beyond that, we need to live in smaller houses, share rooms and take fewer showers. Alternatives aren't there yet either. I'd love to put solar shingles on my roof but the technology seems to be still stuck in the 70s.

Beyond these points, I have a larger issue with movements like these. They make you feel guilty for using what humans have achieved through hundreds of years of work, labor an innovation. There must be something "dirty" about using, not wasting of course, electricity. Instead of making so much noise about saving electricity I wish they would set out to bring light to the dark corners of the earth. Which one serves humanity more, I ask?

[Carnos Jax]

Dakota, I think it's one's own reaction that's at fault here. I've never seen environmental message do a guilt trip. It seems like you're seeing something that's not there.