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Mr645 wrote:
[quote=sekker]
[quote=Smote]
[quote=mattkime]
[quote=Smote]
Really hypocritical that you expect people to value your rights, when you don't value theirs, or at least respect that their views may be different, but it is their Right to have them.
My valued rights don't kill people.
Also, interesting first post to the forum. Long time listener first time caller?
people breaking the law are the ones killing people. Seems like you aren't making that distinction. Someone exercising that Right lawfully are harmless.
pre-2010. not new
Call me skeptical of motives, but I'll bite.
I think my kids have a right to go to school and not fear being targeted by radicalized white supremacists.
I think THAT right supercedes the inconvenience of registering your guns.
I am not going to go beyond this. If we cannot agree that our kids have priority, this discussion is over.
Actually, twice as many mass shooters are democrats as compared to Republicans although to be clear, more mass shooters have no political or religious alignment than both parties combined.
Oh, gawd. Another “fact” pulled out of one’s rear, without a shred of support.
Source: ADL
Wow- who knew there were so many Democratic White supremacists!
As far as mass shootings specifically, perhaps we should look at this Politifact fact-checker. (Spoiler: “Pants-on-fire”)
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Smote wrote:
[quote=mattkime]
[quote=Smote]Someone exercising that Right lawfully is harmless.
We disagree.
As is our Right. But so is my Right the bear arms.
So, you’re part of a well-regulated militia then?
Also, how do you feel about these obviously unconstitutional laws against people owning machine guns, cannons, tanks, or nukes?
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Mr645 wrote:
[quote=sekker]
[quote=Smote]
[quote=mattkime]
[quote=Smote]
Really hypocritical that you expect people to value your rights, when you don't value theirs, or at least respect that their views may be different, but it is their Right to have them.
My valued rights don't kill people.
Also, interesting first post to the forum. Long time listener first time caller?
people breaking the law are the ones killing people. Seems like you aren't making that distinction. Someone exercising that Right lawfully are harmless.
pre-2010. not new
Call me skeptical of motives, but I'll bite.
I think my kids have a right to go to school and not fear being targeted by radicalized white supremacists.
I think THAT right supercedes the inconvenience of registering your guns.
I am not going to go beyond this. If we cannot agree that our kids have priority, this discussion is over.
Actually, twice as many mass shooters are democrats as compared to Republicans although to be clear, more mass shooters have no political or religious alignment than both parties combined.
Once again, I look for common ground and you say something irrelevant. Both parties (and independents) have kids. Are you saying you are anti-children? I honestly do not understand what you are saying (in addition to being inaccurate).
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Smote wrote:
[quote=mattkime]
[quote=Smote]Someone exercising that Right lawfully is harmless.
We disagree.
As is our Right. But so is my Right the bear arms. Please feel free to LEGALLY attempt to change the laws, as long as no one's Constitutional Rights are violated.
It seems to me a lot here subscribe to the ends justify the means, as long as the Rights violated aren't yours, and you don't value them. How very far right Republican of you all.
Not at all. I have never proposed ending any Constitutional right. But it's NOT against the Constitution to require background checks, registration or even insurance.
When someone tells me that ANY such processes are against the Second Amendment, I know what they are really saying.
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https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/data-...murderers/
I'm saying that as long as we blame the gun, or who the shooter voted for, stop using mass shootings for political power and to divide the people, the solution all evade us.
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I’ll happily concede that you may purchase and own any firearm that was being manufactured and sold when the second amendment was ratified.
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Smote wrote:
No need to introduce myself, been a member here for over 14 years. Please look manually around the spring of 2009 for example since a "stranger" breeds so much distrust in you.
A number of people here have had account issues and had to re-register. The account was deleted and re-registered by OWC. The suspicious natures here sure breeds insularity.
OT, but there have been sock puppet trolls that have popped up here in the past.
Examples:
Chobert Ruhl (now "deactivated")
Saul Goodman (now "deactivated")
Charlie M. (now "deactivated")
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"Law abiding gun owners are harmless"
Having a gun in your home makes it far more likely that someone with access to that gun uses it for suicide, or kills someone else.
I have no interest in taking away the right to own a gun, but the 2nd Amendment is not a suicide pact, nor a license for stupidity. Most American gun owners want common sense gun safety laws. And the states that have these laws see far fewer gun deaths than those with the least regulations.
This push for no common sense safety laws is relatively new in US history. We haven't always been this dunb, and this violent and unsafe. It doesn't have to be like this.
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This was "right" invented by Scalia, and funded by the gun manufacturers. And the right to carry modern arms is limited by the constitution to support for a "well regulated militia", not a bunch of freelancers cosplaying Rangers.
You want to carry around guns as they were at the time of the writing of the Constitution? Please, go ahead with my blessing.
Smote wrote:
I think what people are failing to realize, is that if the PICA legislation gets gutted, is that each and every legislaturist in Illinois who voted for this, voted to strip their constituents of Right guaranteed by the Constitution. And they knowingly did this after the Bruen decission was passed. They KNEW it was a civil rights violation, and they didn't care. THEY DIDN'T CARE THEY VIOLATED THE CONSTITUTION.
"Can the senseless crimes of a relative few be so despicable to justify the infringement of the constitutional rights of law-abiding individuals in hopes that such crimes will then abate or, at least, not be as horrific? More specifically, can PICA be harmonized with the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution and with Bruen? That is the issue before this Court. The simple answer at this stage in the proceedings is “likely no.” and "The Supreme Court in Bruen and Heller held that citizens have a constitutional right to own and possess firearms and may use them for self-defense,” the judge wrote in his ruling. “ seems to be written in spite of the clear directives in Bruen and Heller, not in conformity with them.”
You all should read the judges court order https://www.dropbox.com/s/kw25u7qgn6wjhq...3.pdf?dl=0
The California magazine capacity ban was ruled in violation as well, but the district court in California is dragging its feet, and at some point the Feds will step in. Washington's Assault Weapon ban that just went into effect, as well as their magazine ban from last summer should be stayed within a day or two, especially in light of the Illinois stay. Washington's I-1639 from a few years ago was already kicked back to the district court that upheld it, in light of the Bruen decision. Washington is dragging its feet as well. Likely a result of their governor and AG applying pressure. The Oregon ban just had paperwork filed last week, and their should be a temporary ruling this week.
If this was a Right that most people here cherished, you would be kicking and screaming, and foaming at the mouth. But since You don't value it, screw those who do.
Really hypocritical that you expect people to value your rights, when you don't value theirs, or at least respect that their views may be different, but it is their Right to have them.
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We license drivers. We should license the ability to own or carry a gun. To me a “well regulated militia” means some sort of training and record keeping if you want to own weapons of mass destruction. My state of Indiana just passed a law that allows citizens to legally carry guns with no permits necessary. This was passed by our Republican super majority against the advice of law enforcement. In so doing we are becoming more violent than the old west.
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