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Don't know where you are haning out, CJ, but as far as messages containing environmental guilt trips, just about every PSA I've ever seen attempts to lay a guilt trip on the folks. From energy conservation to recycling, they'd have you believe it's all our fault. Doom if you don't conserve.
I've heard the warnings for over 50 years, but nothing was done. I grew up in a house that was built in the 20's that had solar water panels. The technology was there, but the incentive was not. Energy was cheap so solar heat fell by the wayside. Now we all pay the consequences.
We've become enchanted with energy consuming gizmos like food processors, trash compactors, electric can crushers, yadda yadda. I don't own any of these things. I can slice and dice vegies just fine with a knife. I can stomp a soda can or milk jug with my foot. Little things that add up.
I built 5 gold star energy efficient house 25 years ago. External house wrap to conserve heat/cold, wrapped the water heater and installed a timer on it, put in a programmable thermostat, paddle fans in every room, installed tinted windows, oriented my house on the lot to make the most of shade from trees, double insulated the attic and interior walls, low flow water everywhere (except the toilets, because I wanted to flush once not twice). I turn off lights, hang stuff to dry rather than use the dryer and all the other "normal" things you do to conserve energy, but even my attempts to conserve will not rescue my utility bill from cap and trade. The CEO of our local electric co-op has already told us to expect our electric bill to triple by 2012 if clean coal is off the table.
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Jumbo Shrimp
Military Intelligence
Clean Coal
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Swampy, then I think it's just a reaction on your part. I don't see it. If you happen to come across such a message in your travels on the Internet, please post it here.
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swampy wrote:
The CEO of our local electric co-op has already told us to expect our electric bill to triple by 2012 if clean coal is off the table.
Just remember that clean coal is not cheap. Lots of processing before burning means your bill will still go up at least some.
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Acer wrote:
[quote=swampy]
The CEO of our local electric co-op has already told us to expect our electric bill to triple by 2012 if clean coal is off the table.
Just remember that clean coal is not cheap. Lots of processing before burning means your bill will still go up at least some.
Quite a bit in fact since many of the "clean coal" technologies being touted in their ads do not exist yet, are still in the R&D stage, or at most in a pilot plant. At best, it will be "cleaner" coal, not the completely clean they are trying to make it sound.
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Did Al Gore turn out his lights or did he buy offsets for that too?
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Acer wrote:
[quote=swampy]
The CEO of our local electric co-op has already told us to expect our electric bill to triple by 2012 if clean coal is off the table.
Just remember that clean coal is not cheap. Lots of processing before burning means your bill will still go up at least some.
Of course clean coal development is not cheap. But we'd probably be much closer to achieving it if liberal environmentalists had not been fighting it so hard for so long. Natural gas is another possible solution, but has met the same objections from the same environmental zealots. Nuclear has met the same fate. Drilling too.
Cap and trade seems to be the liberal solution, but it solves nothing when the infrastructure for renewable energy is still 10-15 years away. You could put a bazillion windmills across the plains today, but there's no way to store its energy or transport it to the rest of the country. Taxing energy production is only a scheme to raise more revenues for the insatiable government's need for money, power and control. It's not a solution to our energy problem. It's a penalty on business and industry caused by lack of action by our failed drive for energy independence dating back to the 60's and 70's.
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swampy wrote: Of course clean coal development is not cheap. But we'd probably be much closer to achieving it if liberal environmentalists had not been fighting it so hard for so long. Natural gas is another possible solution, but has met the same objections from the same environmental zealots. Nuclear has met the same fate. Drilling too.
Cap and trade seems to be the liberal solution, but it solves nothing when the infrastructure for renewable energy is still 10-15 years away. You could put a bazillion windmills across the plains today, but there's no way to store its energy or transport it to the rest of the country. Taxing energy production is only a scheme to raise more revenues for the insatiable government's need for money, power and control. It's not a solution to our energy problem. It's a penalty on business and industry caused by lack of action by our failed drive for energy independence dating back to the 60's and 70's.
I don't even know where to begin here. Transport energy...what's the national power grid? You really believe the government is power hungry? You should critically think for yourself about the issues instead of taking points from Republican manifestos.
Dakota wrote:
Did Al Gore turn out his lights or did he buy offsets for that too?
Does everyone who believes in the right to bear arms own a gun? Did everyone who supported the war in Iraq join the military (if they were able-bodied)? Does everyone who is pro-choice get an abortion (if faced with the situation)? He's done a lot more than you when it comes to making the public aware of the problem.
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Carnos Jax wrote:
[quote=swampy]Of course clean coal development is not cheap. But we'd probably be much closer to achieving it if liberal environmentalists had not been fighting it so hard for so long. Natural gas is another possible solution, but has met the same objections from the same environmental zealots. Nuclear has met the same fate. Drilling too.
Cap and trade seems to be the liberal solution, but it solves nothing when the infrastructure for renewable energy is still 10-15 years away. You could put a bazillion windmills across the plains today, but there's no way to store its energy or transport it to the rest of the country. Taxing energy production is only a scheme to raise more revenues for the insatiable government's need for money, power and control. It's not a solution to our energy problem. It's a penalty on business and industry caused by lack of action by our failed drive for energy independence dating back to the 60's and 70's.
I don't even know where to begin here. Transport energy...what's the national power grid? You really believe the government is power hungry? You should critically think for yourself about the issues instead of taking points from Republican manifestos.
Dakota wrote:
Did Al Gore turn out his lights or did he buy offsets for that too?
Does everyone who believes in the right to bear arms own a gun? Did everyone who supported the war in Iraq join the military (if they were able-bodied)? Does everyone who is pro-choice get an abortion (if faced with the situation)? He's done a lot more than you when it comes to making the public aware of the problem.
It is one thing to just beleive in something but it is quite another to jet around the globe and preach it. If you preach it you better make damn sure you follow your own advice. This I learned from fellow Democrats who waste no time pointing out moral fallability of Repubplicans. Was I wrong?
ps
He did not turn out his lights.
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swampy wrote: Of course clean coal development is not cheap. But we'd probably be much closer to achieving it if liberal environmentalists had not been fighting it so hard for so long. Natural gas is another possible solution, but has met the same objections from the same environmental zealots. Nuclear has met the same fate. Drilling too.
Cap and trade seems to be the liberal solution, but it solves nothing when the infrastructure for renewable energy is still 10-15 years away. You could put a bazillion windmills across the plains today, but there's no way to store its energy or transport it to the rest of the country. Taxing energy production is only a scheme to raise more revenues for the insatiable government's need for money, power and control. It's not a solution to our energy problem. It's a penalty on business and industry caused by lack of action by our failed drive for energy independence dating back to the 60's and 70's.
As carnos noted, it's difficult to say where to begin. Well, the only way to begin really is to say that everything you wrote is utter bullshit obviously pulled from some propaganda site. You don't have any of your facts straight. Now, if you want to make some points, please state some actual facts along with some actual backup so there is something tangible to discuss. Please don't go completely dakota-esque on us by just making shit up. Fictional republican talking points pulled out of your or Rush's rear end are not points of discussion.
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