Delta Outbreaks and Mutations Endanger the Vaccinated...

[Sarcany]

TLDR:

Good news:

Vaccination seems to be working to keep the number of new cases down.

Bad news:

The pandemic is raging among the unvaccinated.

There are new and more infectious mutations of the Delta Variant that they're calling Delta Plus.

In both Israel and England, many new COVID cases have been from those fully inoculated, about half of those in Israel (recall that they went with Pfizer).

Many of those dead from from the Delta variant have been vaccinated.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical...ar-AALrizl

[PeterB]

I did call it, earlier on: https://forums.macresource.com/read.php?...sg-2641874

And I also just saw this, suggesting that those of us who had gotten the J&J should definitely also get the Pfizer or Moderna, as I have already done: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthc...021-06-25/

This thing is not to be underestimated. My deepest concern is the virus replicating and continuing to mutate in the unvaccinated population...

[space-time]

So many people NOT wearing their masks... In Asia everyone wears the mask, as soon as I landed in US, airports was crowded and about 20% of the people did not wear a mask or did not wear it properly.

[PeterB]

space-time wrote:
So many people NOT wearing their masks... In Asia everyone wears the mask, as soon as I landed in US, airports was crowded and about 20% of the people did not wear a mask or did not wear it properly.

Yes, because freedomz.

[bfd]

Dose, density, and duration … It's 3D!

Stay away from those who obviously have active cases, stay away from large crowds in tight places, and keep moving (or just try to stay home - though that's getting old at this point!)

[Lemon Drop]

SARCANY:
"In both Israel and England, many new COVID cases have been from those fully inoculated, about half of those in Israel (recall that they went with Pfizer).

Many of those dead from from the Delta variant have been vaccinated"

What is the source for this information? It does not appear in the link you provided. That link said the outbreak is in unvaccinated people, which we know.

I looked at the Israeli Dept of Health website, it said no such thing. It tells people to get vaccinated and that vaccines are protective against variants. The new outbreaks are largely among unvaccinated children.



.
From the op link

"There is no reason to think at this point it’s worse than Delta, but there is no reason to think it’s an innocuous variant,” said Dr. Anurag Agrawal, director of the CSIR Institute of Genomics and Integrative Biology, which operates one of the labs charged with genomic sequencing of Covid-19 in India.

K417N “is not a major significant mutation by itself usually,” said Ravindra Gupta, professor of clinical microbiology at University of Cambridge. The mutation has also been found in versions of the Alpha variant, but failed to make that variant more dangerous, he said.

“We should keep an open mind and not start panicking,” he said

[PeterB]

Lemon Drop wrote:
SARCANY:
"In both Israel and England, many new COVID cases have been from those fully inoculated, about half of those in Israel (recall that they went with Pfizer).

Many of those dead from from the Delta variant have been vaccinated"

What is the source for this information? It does not appear in the link you provided. That link said the outbreak is in unvaccinated people, which we know.

I think Sarcany was probably referring to this part?:

"The U.K. has recorded instances of breakthrough infections and even deaths among vaccinated individuals. Of 117 deaths linked to Delta in the U.K., 50 were among fully vaccinated adults. Scientists and public-health officials say the numbers are small and in line with what might be expected given the effectiveness of the vaccines. All those deaths were in people over 50, who would be expected to account for almost all deaths in the absence of vaccination."

... I would say that it IS concerning that fully vaccinated adults are dying of this. Yes, the numbers are small, but it underscores the idea that just because someone is vaccinated, doesn't mean they can't get the disease or even die from it. (This just personally irks me a bit, because the messaging in this country has consistently been, "if you're vaccinated, you're protected", which is unfortunately an oversimplification and just not correct.)

[Lemon Drop]

I think it is super important not to do fear mongering. About the only variant spreading in the UK now is delta. So of course any breakthrough infections, which are very rare, are going to be delta. The proper conclusion is not "delta is a threat to the vaccinated."


From the NY Times

"The Delta variant is unlikely to pose much risk to people who have been fully vaccinated, experts said.

“If you’re fully vaccinated, I would largely not worry about it,” said Dr. Ashish K. Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health.

According to one recent study, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 88 percent effective at protecting against symptomatic disease caused by Delta, nearly matching its 93 percent effectiveness against the Alpha variant. But a single dose of the vaccine was just 33 percent effective against Delta, the study found.

“Fully immunized individuals should do well with this new phase of the epidemic,” said Dr. Peter Hotez, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine. “However, the protection offered by a single dose appears low, and of course if you are not at all vaccinated, consider yourself at high risk.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/healt...covid.html

[Janit]

PeterB wrote:
... I would say that it IS concerning that fully vaccinated adults are dying of this. Yes, the numbers are small, but it underscores the idea that just because someone is vaccinated, doesn't mean they can't get the disease or even die from it. (This just personally irks me a bit, because the messaging in this country has consistently been, "if you're vaccinated, you're protected", which is unfortunately an oversimplification and just not correct.)

It's tough to design the best PR for this kind of situation. It must be clear and convincing; elicit sufficient anxiety (mitigated by reassurance), but not outright fear; and simple enough to understand, yet nuanced enough to not be an outright lie.

It could be argued that doing this right would merit a Nobel Prize in Literature.

[S. Pupp]

Janit wrote:
It's tough to design the best PR for this kind of situation. It must be clear and convincing; elicit sufficient anxiety (mitigated by reassurance), but not outright fear; and simple enough to understand, yet nuanced enough to not be an outright lie.

It could be argued that doing this right would merit a Nobel Prize in Literature.

"Wear a damn mask."
I'll wait for my nomination. Thanks.