A good time to bring up the idea of compulsory civil service?

[DeusxMac]

testcase wrote:
I totally agree. EVERYBODY can do something for their country. If it were applied UNIVERSALLY, those who would be "unhappy" about "serving" wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Wishful thinking. Without some universally recognized (and agreed upon) national emergency, there would be copious “legal legs”.

testcase wrote: As for "benefits", except for people who made a career out of service spending 20 years or more, the "short timers" would not need to receive / be paid for anything more than BASIC SERVICE. There could be numerous choices of service that could be pursued with terms lasting from two to six years. Inductees could elect to put some of their pay aside for college or other training AFTER they've fulfilled their basic service. All in all, get the little darlings away from mommy & daddy and, teach them / let them learn to be more self sufficient. It's something that MANY of them need.

See “conscription”. Again, without some clear, unifying national emergency, no bit of that could happen here in the U.S.

[Diana]

DeusxMac wrote:
[quote=testcase]
I totally agree. EVERYBODY can do something for their country. If it were applied UNIVERSALLY, those who would be "unhappy" about "serving" wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Wishful thinking. Without some universally recognized (and agreed upon) national emergency, there would be copious “legal legs”.

testcase wrote: As for "benefits", except for people who made a career out of service spending 20 years or more, the "short timers" would not need to receive / be paid for anything more than BASIC SERVICE. There could be numerous choices of service that could be pursued with terms lasting from two to six years. Inductees could elect to put some of their pay aside for college or other training AFTER they've fulfilled their basic service. All in all, get the little darlings away from mommy & daddy and, teach them / let them learn to be more self sufficient. It's something that MANY of them need.

See “conscription”. Again, without some clear, unifying national emergency, no bit of that could happen here in the U.S.
Okay. Then make it voluntary. Make it a two year service, full time, and get college assistance for one year (amount to be determined). During that one year at school you have a one day per month (1 month = 4 weeks, total of 13 days/year) service you have to do. You can do it all in a row, space it out, or some prior agreed number of days, as long as it totals 13 days in the year. What area would you like to go into? Social services? Medicine? Physics? Chemistry? The government has folks working these jobs and more.

Find you don’t like where you are, as in don’t like physics or biology or whatever as it is done in the real world? Request a change to something else, but put a limit on the number of changes during those two years. Like it and want to do another stint? Stay another two years for a total of four with the same bennies as before, but now two years of schooling assistance instead of one. Find you would like to make a career of it? Fine!

Also, as there will be only X number of positions with some (possibly) multiple number of kids to fill them, make it competitive with high school gpa only a part of it. Don’t make gpa a defining part, as some really bright kids may not flourish in school, but not an inconsiderate factor either. Also, gpa is not consistent across the country as some places have been given the side-eye as to giving grades to get kids through. When the quality of instruction is the same across the country, in public school, private school, or even home schooling, then you might be able to weigh it more. We won’t get into testing standards, as there isn’t enough room on the forum or time in a day to go through it.

The only thing is that if you don’t finish your stint, you don’t get the reward. If you don’t want to do the stint at all, you get no reward. That’s how the game is played. No stint, and you get to do what everyone else has had to do: if you want to get a college degree you work for it.

Plenty of people change their majors after they find out what it really entails. Use it to find out what you want to do.

Edit: Pay them a decent wage for their time. Not extravagant, but certainly more than minimum wage, with the amount to be determined.

[RgrF]

The benefits from 1940 thru 70 conscription produced a society much more in tune with each other than has been seen since. Exposing otherwise separate cultures amounted to some uniformity of, if not purpose, some degree of understanding and acceptance .

Whether the separation was by geography, culture, religion or income, the amalgamation of people conscription produced was something we should draw a lesson from and perhaps seek to emulate.

[Ted King]

Any conscription is a hard no for me unless there is an extreme emergency.

[gabester]

Ted King wrote:
Any conscription is a hard no for me unless there is an extreme emergency.

Climate change?

[DeusxMac]

Diana wrote:
Okay. Then make it voluntary.

Then the incentives must be sufficient to guarantee sufficient volunteering.

Diana wrote: Make it a two year service, full time, and get college assistance for one year (amount to be determined).

Two years of "full time" service, and the only college assistance is some TBD financial assistance for only one year of college? Doesn't sound like much of an incentive to me.

Diana wrote: During that one year at school you have a one day per month (1 month = 4 weeks, total of 13 days/year) service you have to do. You can do it all in a row, space it out, or some prior agreed number of days, as long as it totals 13 days in the year. What area would you like to go into? Social services? Medicine? Physics? Chemistry? The government has folks working these jobs and more.

Any "service" that was only 13 days in a whole year couldn't possibly offer more than minimal assistance to any community in need.
- There's little to no time for the volunteers to acquire needed training and skills.
- The turnover, and lack of continuity and consistency would be dramatic.
- 13 straight days of service would limit locations served, as too much travel time to and from would reduce the days actually serving the community.
- 13 single one-day-of-service would have to be in the immediate area of each individual "volunteer", which again would result in the services not being rendered in a community most in need.

Diana wrote: Find you don’t like where you are, as in don’t like physics or biology or whatever as it is done in the real world? Request a change to something else, but put a limit on the number of changes during those two years.

This would exacerbate the above noted lack of volunteer training and skills acquired and available to the communities in need.

Diana wrote: Like it and want to do another stint? Stay another two years for a total of four with the same bennies as before, but now two years of schooling assistance instead of one. Find you would like to make a career of it? Fine!

Four years in the military currently provides more educational assistance than this. https://www.militarytimes.com/education-...its-guide/

Diana wrote: Also, as there will be only X number of positions with some (possibly) multiple number of kids to fill them, make it competitive with high school gpa only a part of it. Don’t make gpa a defining part, as some really bright kids may not flourish in school, but not an inconsiderate factor either. Also, gpa is not consistent across the country as some places have been given the side-eye as to giving grades to get kids through. When the quality of instruction is the same across the country, in public school, private school, or even home schooling, then you might be able to weigh it more. We won’t get into testing standards, as there isn’t enough room on the forum or time in a day to go through it.

Sounds like this "competition" isn't fully baked yet, and assumes the service jobs will draw more applicants than openings.

Diana wrote: Edit: Pay them a decent wage for their time. Not extravagant, but certainly more than minimum wage, with the amount to be determined.

Will the pay be the same regardless of the type of service the volunteer provides? If not, won't the lower paying service positions be under-filled?

[Speedy]

This isn’t your parents or grandparents CCC or WPA jobs programs. I vote no.

[Ted King]

gabester wrote:
[quote=Ted King]
Any conscription is a hard no for me unless there is an extreme emergency.

Climate change?
In practical terms, if a large majority of people come to perceive climate change as an extreme emergency, then yes. In personal terms (me, individually), I would need to hear a comprehensive plan that required conscription of young people to work that has a plausible chance of success before I would personally think the upside of the conscription was worth the downside.

[Diana]

DeusxMac wrote:
[quote=Diana]
Okay. Then make it voluntary.

Then the incentives must be sufficient to guarantee sufficient volunteering.

Diana wrote: Make it a two year service, full time, and get college assistance for one year (amount to be determined).

Two years of "full time" service, and the only college assistance is some TBD financial assistance for only one year of college? Doesn't sound like much of an incentive to me.

Diana wrote: During that one year at school you have a one day per month (1 month = 4 weeks, total of 13 days/year) service you have to do. You can do it all in a row, space it out, or some prior agreed number of days, as long as it totals 13 days in the year. What area would you like to go into? Social services? Medicine? Physics? Chemistry? The government has folks working these jobs and more.

Any "service" that was only 13 days in a whole year couldn't possibly offer more than minimal assistance to any community in need.
- There's little to no time for the volunteers to acquire needed training and skills.
- The turnover, and lack of continuity and consistency would be dramatic.
- 13 straight days of service would limit locations served, as too much travel time to and from would reduce the days actually serving the community.
- 13 single one-day-of-service would have to be in the immediate area of each individual "volunteer", which again would result in the services not being rendered in a community most in need.

Diana wrote: Find you don’t like where you are, as in don’t like physics or biology or whatever as it is done in the real world? Request a change to something else, but put a limit on the number of changes during those two years.

This would exacerbate the above noted lack of volunteer training and skills acquired and available to the communities in need.

Diana wrote: Like it and want to do another stint? Stay another two years for a total of four with the same bennies as before, but now two years of schooling assistance instead of one. Find you would like to make a career of it? Fine!

Four years in the military currently provides more educational assistance than this. https://www.militarytimes.com/education-...its-guide/

Diana wrote: Also, as there will be only X number of positions with some (possibly) multiple number of kids to fill them, make it competitive with high school gpa only a part of it. Don’t make gpa a defining part, as some really bright kids may not flourish in school, but not an inconsiderate factor either. Also, gpa is not consistent across the country as some places have been given the side-eye as to giving grades to get kids through. When the quality of instruction is the same across the country, in public school, private school, or even home schooling, then you might be able to weigh it more. We won’t get into testing standards, as there isn’t enough room on the forum or time in a day to go through it.

Sounds like this "competition" isn't fully baked yet, and assumes the service jobs will draw more applicants than openings.

Diana wrote: Edit: Pay them a decent wage for their time. Not extravagant, but certainly more than minimum wage, with the amount to be determined.

Will the pay be the same regardless of the type of service the volunteer provides? If not, won't the lower paying service positions be under-filled?
Wow. Just wow.

My thoughts were an outline, not a fully fleshed out government program ready for immediate implementation.

Do you have any ideas? Or are you just going to sit back, pick it apart, and tell me no it cannot possibly work because of *stuff*.

[SteveG]

I hear the throbbing sound of helicopter parents screaming, 'Not my baby!'