Why are these topics aligned: anti-abortion, pro-guns, climate change denials

[mattkime]

Ted King wrote: I don't know about the "probably won't be" but I agree that there is a lot more that needs to be figured out about recycling of "green" technology. Here's some work being done about windmill blades:

https://cen.acs.org/environment/recyclin...es/100/i27

This ignores a magnitude of difference in problems. How many decommissioned turbine blades would we need to create a problem the size of global warming? It just doesn't compare.

[Racer X]

mattkime wrote:
[quote=Ted King]I don't know about the "probably won't be" but I agree that there is a lot more that needs to be figured out about recycling of "green" technology. Here's some work being done about windmill blades:

https://cen.acs.org/environment/recyclin...es/100/i27

This ignores a magnitude of difference in problems. How many decommissioned turbine blades would we need to create a problem the size of global warming? It just doesn't compare.
certain material, although inert, will last damn near forever unless broken down. I'm prety sure wind turbine blades are one of them. Carbon fibers, ceramic, non-ferous metals and binding resins aren't going anywhere for a long long time without our help.

last time I traversed I-10 at the California/AZ border, there were hundreds of busted, not simply off-line wind turbines. Dozens and dozens of broken blades littered the hills and valleys. I wonder if any had ever gotten near the freeway.

The heck with recycling, how about stacking them up out of the way?

I did see something about using blades as structural supports for small 2 lane county lane bridges. That would be a great way to repourpose them.

[kj]

mattkime wrote:
[quote=Ted King]I don't know about the "probably won't be" but I agree that there is a lot more that needs to be figured out about recycling of "green" technology. Here's some work being done about windmill blades:

https://cen.acs.org/environment/recyclin...es/100/i27

This ignores a magnitude of difference in problems. How many decommissioned turbine blades would we need to create a problem the size of global warming? It just doesn't compare.
I'm confident that humans can make batteries, solar panels, and even wind turbines a big enough problem to really mess things up. Most things are thrown away instead of recycling because it's cheaper, and I think that's likely to happen with green energy tech also, unless something drastically different happens. And if current trends continue with EV cars, they'll get bigger and bigger and less efficient until the benefits over ICE are gone. I hope not, but it sure as heck isn't "solved long ago". It starts with people being insatiable, and that is what will have to change.

[pdq]

kj wrote:
[quote=davester]
[quote=Smote]
[quote=Speedy]
“But the issues of waste solar panels, wind farm blades, and lithium traction batteries have to be solved immediately.”

All have been solved and long ago at that.

how are they recycling all the blades? I have seen some be repoursed, but they are still essentually a blade. How are the solar panels being recycled?
Oh geez, here we are in troll city again...
auto=webp&s=20b3562cfebdf339110d1f4a6e6a85bb3e658c25">
NO! That has not all been solved long ago..
I thought I had posted this before, but apparently I didn’t hit “post message”. It’s an EPA page describing solar panel recycling, which is well on its way:

…by 2030, the cumulative value of recoverable raw materials from end-of-life panels globally will be about $450 million

It’s not rocket science. If there is money in it, it will be done.

[kj]

pdq wrote:
[quote=kj]
[quote=davester]
[quote=Smote]
[quote=Speedy]
“But the issues of waste solar panels, wind farm blades, and lithium traction batteries have to be solved immediately.”

All have been solved and long ago at that.

how are they recycling all the blades? I have seen some be repoursed, but they are still essentually a blade. How are the solar panels being recycled?
Oh geez, here we are in troll city again...
auto=webp&s=20b3562cfebdf339110d1f4a6e6a85bb3e658c25">
NO! That has not all been solved long ago..
I thought I had posted this before, but apparently I didn’t hit “post message”. It’s an EPA page describing solar panel recycling, which is well on its way:

…by 2030, the cumulative value of recoverable raw materials from end-of-life panels globally will be about $450 million

It’s not rocket science. If there is money in it, it will be done.
"on it's way", is not "solved long ago". It is currently not happening (10% are recycled). If making new ones is cheaper than recycling them (not just solar panels but batteries, etc.) recycling will not happen. It could be like aluminum recycling (success) or plastic recycling (miserable failure). I think at least there is hope, so lets give it a try, but it is not a done deal, by any stretch. I don't know if it's true, but I just read Tesla is going to a "structural" battery, which makes recycling a lot harder. There are a lot of complexities working against sustainability, so it accomplishes nothing to assure people it's not a problem to be dealt with.

Recycling promises have a long history of not panning out, so I'll believe it when I see it.

[Ted King]

mattkime wrote:
[quote=Ted King]I don't know about the "probably won't be" but I agree that there is a lot more that needs to be figured out about recycling of "green" technology. Here's some work being done about windmill blades:

https://cen.acs.org/environment/recyclin...es/100/i27

This ignores a magnitude of difference in problems. How many decommissioned turbine blades would we need to create a problem the size of global warming? It just doesn't compare.
I didn't mean to imply that it did. I haven't seen any statistics on it and it is probably hard to make an assessment, but it is possible that if all used up green technology ends up in land fills that the net affect on the environment would still be positive. But it certainly will be better if we can develop ways of recycling green technology to a greater extent than it is today.

[Racer X]

kj wrote:
[quote=pdq]
[quote=kj]
[quote=davester]
[quote=Smote]
[quote=Speedy]
“But the issues of waste solar panels, wind farm blades, and lithium traction batteries have to be solved immediately.”

All have been solved and long ago at that.

how are they recycling all the blades? I have seen some be repoursed, but they are still essentually a blade. How are the solar panels being recycled?
Oh geez, here we are in troll city again...
auto=webp&s=20b3562cfebdf339110d1f4a6e6a85bb3e658c25">
NO! That has not all been solved long ago..
I thought I had posted this before, but apparently I didn’t hit “post message”. It’s an EPA page describing solar panel recycling, which is well on its way:

…by 2030, the cumulative value of recoverable raw materials from end-of-life panels globally will be about $450 million

It’s not rocket science. If there is money in it, it will be done.
"on it's way", is not "solved long ago". It is currently not happening (10% are recycled). If making new ones is cheaper than recycling them (not just solar panels but batteries, etc.) recycling will not happen. It could be like aluminum recycling (success) or plastic recycling (miserable failure). I think at least there is hope, so lets give it a try, but it is not a done deal, by any stretch. I don't know if it's true, but I just read Tesla is going to a "structural" battery, which makes recycling a lot harder. There are a lot of complexities working against sustainability, so it accomplishes nothing to assure people it's not a problem to be dealt with.

Recycling promises have a long history of not panning out, so I'll believe it when I see it.
like plastics recycling? locally, they only take #1 and #2. everything else is garbage. I am, and I am sure most of my neighbors are willing to, recycle other types, its just not available here, and we are a decent sized community.. No profit in it.

[Acer]

Taking #1 and #2 is better than taking none. That's a lot of plastic.

Another course would be to reduce overall consumption of all resources significantly, but that kind of talk makes economists very, very irritable.

[sekker]

There are very few long-term solutions to plastic waste. 'Recycling' plastic is not circular like aluminum (the latter is nearly infinitely recyclable).

As for the products of green energy - capitalism will drive behavior to externalize risk and costs. That's why we are in the climate change mess anyway - dumping excess CO2 into the atmosphere doesn't hit a company's bottom-line.

[Racer X]

sekker wrote:
There are very few long-term solutions to plastic waste. 'Recycling' plastic is not circular like aluminum (the latter is nearly infinitely recyclable).

As for the products of green energy - capitalism will drive behavior to externalize risk and costs. That's why we are in the climate change mess anyway - dumping excess CO2 into the atmosphere doesn't hit a company's bottom-line.

And unfortunately, the US is less than 5% of the population. Not sure of our "consumption" percentage. No matter how perfect WE are, the other 95%+ of the population needs to be onvboard as well.