Today's school shooting (same one as immediately above)

[gabester]

pdq wrote:
So, thought experiment.

What if a state removed all limits on drinking and driving, and fatal accidents involving cars soared? And one plowed into a school bus, killing kids (which had happened over and over), what would be your response?

Queue Smote in 3... 2... 1...
Yeah but CARS aren't in the Constitution.
ARMS are.

[DeusxMac]

Lemon Drop wrote:
If prayer bothers you so much then try to ignore it.

Just try...

Christian nationalism

"...recent research has focused on how libertarian, small-government ideology and neoliberal political economics have become part of the American Christian political identity."

"Christian nationalists view the country's founding documents as "divinely inspired" and supernaturally revealed to Christian men to preference Christianity, and are willing to elect impious heads of state if they support right-wing causes."

Christian Trumpism

Project 2025: A Christian Nationalist playbook

More States Are Testing the Limits Around Religion in Public Schools

[hal]

pdq wrote:
Just to be clear, this was a mom of a kid at the school who was fine.

I don’t understand why you think I’m “mocking” her - a reporter asked her what can be done about these things (or that’s the way I interpreted it when I saw it), and her only answer was “pray”.

I find your response to this really annoying - and I am a card carrying nonbeliever.

First, you are not quoting her correctly - she wasn't asked what can be done about these things, she was asked how she asked, “What do you do [in this situation]?”

What do you do when your community is torn up by a horrendous crime? 'Prayer' is a real answer for a lot of people. She wasn't asked how to prevent such a crime.

Damn - live and let live - don't confuse victims with crappy politicians.

[DeusxMac]

hal wrote:
Damn - live and let live - don't confuse victims with crappy politicians.

Why do you think those "crappy politicians" continuously respond to these deaths with "Thoughts and prayers"?

Because they know that's what the "victims" want to hear.

[Lemon Drop]

DeusxMac wrote:
[quote=hal]
Damn - live and let live - don't confuse victims with crappy politicians.

Why do you think those "crappy politicians" continuously respond to these deaths with "Thoughts and prayers"?

Because they know that's what the "victims" want to hear.
This is a nonsense response. Joe Biden is one of the strongest presidents we have had on gun control. His first impulse in these terrible situations, as a practicing Catholic , is to offer prayers of condolence to the victims.


THEN he brings up, to the wider audience, the need to address gun violence with better laws.

Why is it so hard to hold both these ideas?

What you are confusing it with is politicians who actively oppose gun safety legislation, and their only comment is "praying for the victims," or "we need to harden the doors." It's not their religious expression that it is the problem, it is the failure to take meaningful action to reduce violence.

If you make the prayer the problem, you are doing nothing to solve this serious issue.

[DeusxMac]

Lemon Drop wrote:
[quote=DeusxMac]
[quote=hal]
Damn - live and let live - don't confuse victims with crappy politicians.

Why do you think those "crappy politicians" continuously respond to these deaths with "Thoughts and prayers"?

Because they know that's what the "victims" want to hear.
This is a nonsense response. Joe Biden is one of the strongest presidents we have had on gun control. His first impulse in these terrible situations, as a practicing Catholic , is to offer prayers of condolence to the victims.
The "good" politicians offer "thoughts and prayers" for the same reason as the bad ones; it's what's wanted and expected by a sufficient percentage of their supporters

Lemon Drop wrote: Why is it so hard to hold both these ideas?

What you are confusing it with is politicians who actively oppose gun safety legislation, and their only comment is "praying for the victims," or "we need to harden the doors." It's not their religious expression that it is the problem, it is the failure to take meaningful action to reduce violence.

The issue is the flawed, and more critically counterproductive mindset that "prayers" have, and will have any actual ability to alleviate future carnage.

Lemon Drop wrote: If you make the prayer the problem, you are doing nothing to solve this serious issue.

It's the outward manifestation of the "belief", a self-deception that praying will have some magical effect on:
- Changing the minds of the "God, Guns, Grits, and Gravy" zealots
- Changing the minds of the politicians who lust for the votes of those zealots
- Changing the minds of the gun manufacturers
- Changing the minds of individuals set on killing others

[kj]

Lemon is correct. There are people who say, “Thoughts and prayers” and do nothing. There are people who say “thoughts and prayers” and do enormous amounts to change things. There are people who post snark, insults, etc. to facebook or forums and do nothing. There are people who do that and are active. Some people are doers and some aren’t. Prayer has nothing to do with it. Lemon is also right that what you are saying is divisive, and it alienates people who could join in taking action.

[$tevie]

DeusxMac wrote: It's the outward manifestation of the "belief", a self-deception that praying will have some magical effect on:
- Changing the minds of the "God, Guns, Grits, and Gravy" zealots
- Changing the minds of the politicians who lust for the votes of those zealots
- Changing the minds of the gun manufacturers
- Changing the minds of individuals set on killing others

Prayers don't have to be "gimme" or "fix it". Prayers can be "Please give me the strength to do what needs to be done to fight for peace and safety". The problem is that the people who advertise their "thoughts and prayers" are very often the same people who have no interest in trying to change the status quo. Don't confuse them with people who practice their faith in their daily lives. They are out there. You just don't know it because they aren't flapping their gums about it.