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Vice Presidential Picks and the Art of War
#21
i agree about being fiscally conservative.

u want to straighten out the current budget mess? start re-thinking the bush-mccain iraq policy and suddenly we are not spending billions on a monthly basis. i would imagine that once accomplished, there will be some stability in the region and gas prices will start to fall.

that is not to suggest that fundamentalism isn't still going to be a real problem or that we need to move off oil and into another technology to power our needs.

i just know that part of our current budgetary woes are war-related.

(a policy that obama stood up to and said "NO" while mccain kept seated and parroted bush)

be well

rob
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#22
[quote rgG]I think McCain is past his prime and I think Obama is running before his prime.
An interesting point.

[quote SteveO]Clinton ended up taking us from a deficit to a huge surplus
I am SO tired of hearing this kool-aid repeated over and over and over...

Do you think that if you keep repeating this it will actually be true?
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#23
[quote SteveO]
Barack Obama is a constitutional scholar [quote SteveO]It sickens my heart to know that McCain would continue Bush's .... lack of constitutional protections for US citizens
And in his pro FISA vote the "constitutional scholar" voted against constitutional protections for US citizens?....
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#24
[quote rgG]
The Democrats need to prove that their numbers add up. Promising things like: "Create a New $7,000 Tax Credit for Purchasing Advanced Vehicles," and "Create Millions of New Green Jobs" and "Weatherize One Million Homes Annually" can't be done for free. They also promise: "Put 1 million Plug-In Hybrid cars -- cars that can get up to 150 miles per gallon -- on the road by 2015," and "Provide $50 billion to Jumpstart the Economy and Prevent 1 Million Americans from Losing Their Jobs," and this is before we even mention how he would fix health care and pay for that.

I am afraid of a tax and spend administration. I want to see fiscal responsibility from the next administration. I am afraid the Democrats are promising far more than they can deliver and just saying what people want to hear.
Interesting. Why are you afraid of a tax & spend administration? I'm not. I am afraid of a tax & borrow administration, which is what we have now.


[quote rgG]
I don't run up debt I can't pay and I don't think the government should either.
Not all debt is bad. Do you have a mortgage? Did you borrow money for college? This is debt that leads us to a better tomorrow.

If the government is going to spend money we don't have, I prefer it be spent on things that will improve society as a whole - something that can pay dividends in the future. The war in Iraq certainly hasn't improved anything, anywhere. But it is costing a lot of money that we don't have. And I think it will result in nothing but problems in the future.
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#25
SteveO beat me to this, but...





... and before someone (cough, freeradical, cough) brings this up, yes, I am aware that correlation is not causation, and that, yes, it's possible Clinton was not responsible for this. But-- it's hard to deny that it happened under his leadership, and... it wouldn't have happened if, at the very least, he hadn't been doing things which at least did not work against it, if not encouraged it. So don't go spouting rubbish about the Republicans being the party of fiscal conservatism -- they haven't lived up to that reputation for some time now.
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#26
[quote Lux Interior]

Not all debt is bad. Do you have a mortgage? Did you borrow money for college? This is debt that leads us to a better tomorrow.

If the government is going to spend money we don't have, I prefer it be spent on things that will improve society as a whole - something that can pay dividends in the future. The war in Iraq certainly hasn't improved anything, anywhere. But it is costing a lot of money that we don't have. And I think it will result in nothing but problems in the future.
Lux, as I said above:
I know there will always be extenuating circumstances that will call for debt, but it should not become a way of life, like it has for so many people and apparently the government, too.
[Image: IMG-2569.jpg]
Whippet, Whippet Good
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#27
[quote rgG] I am struggling with the same question I always seem to struggle with, who is likely to do less harm. I would really like to be FOR someone rather than just have to settle, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards this time.

I am not a Kool-Aid drinker for Obama, but I am happy there are people who are inspired by him. I think his being nominated is historic and that in itself may do a lot of good to inspire kids who are from either a minority background or not as well off as most who go into politics. Me too.
My problem is that I am about equally split on the issues, half with the Democrats, half with the Republicans.
I will admit to nagging pangs of feeling like maybe it is a good thing to have a base in the middle east. At the very least we have a responsibility to try to undo some of the devastation we caused. Other than that I can't think of a single republican position I prescribe to.
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#28
[quote Black Landlord]Other than that I can't think of a single republican position I prescribe to.
1) Fiscal responsibility.

2) Smaller government.

3) Strong military.

Unfortunately, the Republican party of today has no interest whatsoever in the first two. The third one they seem to translate into "more money for defense contractors for projects that never work or are never finished". Not better pay/conditions for military personnel, better veterans benefits, etc.

The Republican party of today is more interested in:

1) Constitutional amendments to take away rights (i.e. gay marriage)

2) Replacing science with religious dogma:

- Teaching the Christian creation myth (and only the Christian one)
- Abstinence sex ed
- Government control of reproductive rights
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#29
Did you forget the part about funneling no-bid contracts to cronies?
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#30
[quote PeterB]

... and before someone (cough, freeradical, cough) brings this up, yes, I am aware that correlation is not causation, and that, yes, it's possible Clinton was not responsible for this. But-- it's hard to deny that it happened under his leadership, and... it wouldn't have happened if, at the very least, he hadn't been doing things which at least did not work against it, if not encouraged it. .
Bill Clinton got on the elevator at the right time. The cold war was over and defense spending was dramatically cut. Let's also not forget that a Democrat, I mean Republican controlled Congress sent Clinton budgets that restrained spending.

Oh, I like your graphics; they are indeed silly examples that do nothing to prove what caused an event. One could just as easily substitute "Congress" for "President" in each graph to "prove" a point.
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