The Tire Question. . .

[mrlynn]

That wouldn't post:

I'm going to buy new all-season tires for my wife's '07 Subaru Outback. We live in eastern Massachusetts, so get a fair amount of snow, but the roads are generally plowed. The Subie is an automatic, so AWD when needed. She uses the car for suburban commuting; we might take a trip in it now and then, but for long trips I prefer my big Chevy van.

The owner of the shop I use is pushing the new model Nokian, called 'eNTYRE' (that's how they spell it), billed as an all-season tire "designed specifically for North America" (Nokian is a Finnish company, best known for their winter/snow tires). ??Nokian's WR-G2 'all-weather' (rather than 'all-season') gets good reviews for winter performance. ??The eNTYRE is new, so probably few have had much experience with them, especially in winter. They don't look as aggressive as the WR G2s.

I guess the difference between the two is that the eNTYRE is basically a summer tire that's OK in snow, and the WR-G2 is a snow/slush tire that's OK in summer. Nokian says that strictly winter tire rubber is not designed to be used when temps are consistently over 40º F, and summer tires the reverse. So what compound do they use in these two?

http://www.nokiantires.com/tyre?id=99244&group=1.02&name=Nokian+eNTYRE
http://www.nokiantires.com/tyre?id=11899&group=1.02&name=Nokian+WRG2

Other recommendations welcome. I was considering Goodyear Triple Treads, but Joe at the shop says he's had terrible experience with them and wouldn't recommend them. He likes Cooper CS4s.

I toy with the idea of getting winter tires on rims and swapping fall and spring, but have not really had a problem with all-seasons on all my cars over the last two decades, even with hard winters like we had last year.

/Mr Lynn

[mrlynn]

PS The 'wouldn't post' thread is here:

http://forums.macresource.com/read.php?1,1041913

/Mr L

[Don Kiyoti]

Does the owner of your shop say WHY he likes these tires? Besides having a deal with Nokian to sell them, of course. He needs to have a good reason.

"Designed specifically for North America" sounds like utter marketing BS. Maybe if they said "designed for certain weather conditions in certain latitudes during certain times of the year (snow)."

Check 'em out sure, but I'd be wary of them. Choosing tires can be a real crap shoot. The only semi-reliable way seems to be reading as many user reviews as possible by people with the same type of vehicle you own.

For what it's worth, I just put a set of Yokohama Geolanders on my Honda Element. I suppose they're available in your size. See if they're as popular for Subies as they are for Elements. So far I've been pleased with them - noticeably quiet - but haven't driven in snow or on any long trips.

[michaelb]

We are far north of you, so we use winter tires. Even with an outback, the AWD doesn't help that much when braking for example. but you may not see much ice, which is when winter snow tires, really, really help. If you are going to keep it for at least 3-4 years, the cost ends up being a wash overall.

I can't comment specifically on new Nokians you are listing. My guess is they are expensive. I had some earlier version of the WRs long ago, and did like them a lot: they were reasonably credible in the snow and ice, but otherwise drove nicely. Depending on your specific needs (how bad the hills, how much highway driving, etc), either could be fine. But if you are not getting snows, you may be able to spend half as much on some other all season tire and do pretty well too.

So really no help here, sorry.

[davester]

We have the Goodyear Triple Treads on our "go to the snow" vehicle and they're much better than any other tire we've used on that vehicle. They also get top ratings at Tire Rack based on many users, so I'd take any tire salesman's advice with a large grain of salt. Check out the Tire Rack's ratings yourself:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresu...sp?type=AS&width=225%2F&ratio=55&diameter=17&tireSearch=true&autoMake=Subaru&autoYear=2007&autoModel=Outback+Wagon+2.5I&autoModClar=Base+Model+With+TPMS

Cooper tires are generally what I would consider "off brand" cheap tires, and it would probably be difficult to find a reliable source of review information for them.

I can't give you any advice on Nokian. They primarily sell snow tires is my understanding. You definitely don't want to drive snow tires year round. Personally I would never buy tires with no track record and no available review information. It's nothing but a gamble.

[M A V I C]

Nokian snow tires are probably as good as they come. I know quite a few car geeks that love them. They don't sell much online, so they're hard to price.

Personally I love running dedicated winter tires. Other than a second set of wheels, they don't really cost you much extra since they will increase the life of your other tires.

Just looking at the tread pattern of the eNTYRE, I'd dread driving those in snow. It's too closed for the wet snow I drive in.

For dedicated snow tires, the dunlop winter sport 3d's are awesome. Michelin also has some nice ones. A little less expensive are the dunlop graspics which will probably be fine for you given the subie's sloppy suspension. They're what I currently run. They were $25/tire less than the winter sports.

Is Mass. snow wet or dry?

[wurm]

I'm in Eastern MA too, and I drive a Subaru (Forester). This is the first year I've decided to go with a separate set of winter tires on rims. I never really had a big problem with all-seasons in the winter in the past, but I keep reading about how much better it is with dedicated winter tires. So, a couple of months ago I bought a nearly new set of Altimax Artic winter tires. And a few weeks ago, the dealer supplied me with a brand new set of Michelin Primacy MX4V all-seasons. In fact, I'll probably do the switchover tomorrow. After much research on what all-seasons to have the dealer give me, I thought I had decided on Hankook Optimo H727. Problem is, they were on "intergalactic backorder" according to the dealer. Second choice was the Michelins, based on my research. My third choice would have been the TripleTreds, if I couldn't get the Michelins (or rather if I had to pay for them).

I really like the Michelins. But they're new tires, and pretty much anything new would have been a lot better than my OEM Yokohama Geolanders with about 5/32" tread remaining. The only thing negative I've noticed with the Michelins is about a 1-2 MPG drop in fuel efficiency, but that could be coincidental with the cooler weather and slightly longer warm-up time in the morning.

If you don't already, I would strongly consider checking out the Subaru Forums out there. The Forester forum in particular has been incredibly helpful and there are as many good, helpful, and knowledgeable people there as there are on this forum. I'm sure there are Outback forums as well, but peruse the pages there and you'll find a lot of info. There an entire sub-forum on wheels and tires. You'll have to register to post, but you can read all you want without doing so.

[michaelb]

I looked at the pictures, and like MAVIC, I don't see anyway the Nokian eNTYRE could be considered a winter ready tire. Maybe it is the thought of "polished grooves" but I just don't see those cutting. The WRs are much more aggressive, the WR-G2s look barely passable IMO. Nokian snow tires used to dominate the market, but I think there has been a strong trend away from them in the past several years, mostly based on price. You can get very good snows for $50-80 less per tire.

[Sam3]

I'm a fan of summer/winter tires, can't comment about Subaru tires, but I have had experience with SAAB's and tires. One winter I thought I'd skip on getting snows, but during an early snowfall, my '87 SAAB 900s wanted to slide it's rear in corners. That was a bit scary, especially in the sort-of-plowed city. I promptly bought snows and never had that feeling again.

In reality, the expense is when you first get snows and extra rims. Seasonally swapping them would be no more expensive than using only all-seasons. Your summer tires will last much longer, as they aren't being used that much.

[mrlynn]

Good comments, all.

Cooper makes off-brand tires, but their own Cooper brand seems to be well-regarded, judging from forum posts, particularly the CS4s, which when they came out were the subject of a substantial Motor Trend review:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/112_0...index.html

They concentrate on the replacement market, not OEM.

The Nokian winter tires, and the 'all-weather' WR G2s get mostly high praise from the user posts on online forums I've found using Google. I am also wary of a new-to-market tire. Murphy's (Joe's shop) is a repair shop, but does sell tires (previously I've always bought tires at a dedicated tire shop). Maybe he got a deal on the eNTYREs, or maybe he just likes them.

Reading reviews at places like TireRack can be frustrating, as there are as many opinions as there are users.

/Mr Lynn