Why didn't James Kim have a GPS?

[JPK]

While the more I read, the more I realize what a tradgedy this is, but without sounding too harsh, why didn't he have GPS with him?

Out of anyone in the whole world except for the CEO of Garmin himself- shouldn't he have had a GPS?

As most folks on this fourm, I consider myself a Fringe Gadget Geek. I would Consider James Kim and Alpha Gadget Geek. I would expect him to have at least a GPS among the geek gadgets that should have been on board.

It looks like there were multiple misjudgments made in this trip and unfortunately he paid the ultimate price. One report said they read the map wrong and missed a turn that would get them to an interstate. My worst experience was taking a wrong turn and adding some time to a trip. Winter driving in low density and unfamiliar areas is big deal. This gets multiplied by 2 when you are traveling with kids and by 3 when you have a newborn.

The road they were on was map marked as being possibly closed during the winter. I would think that it would have been marked with signage as well? Would you question things if you were on a road and didn't see any other cars in either direction?

I am all for "taking the road less traveled" philosphy, but not in a snow storm, not with the family and not without the appropriate gear.

The reports I have read said their cell phone was out of battery too. Did he not have a car adapter or one of those battery extender packs? While their location could have precluded making a call, if their cell phone was on couldn't they have at least used it for narrowing the circle to find them/him.


When traveling in the boonies in the winter:
1. Always have at least a 3/4 tank of gas. Allows for idle time during delays and helps with traction.

2. Know where you are going.

3. Have someone who knows your route and schedule.

There are probably about a dozen other things like a shovel, sand/salt and other stuff that you can find at the AAA site.

I know it is easy to armchair quarterback this now, but this appears to have been a preventable incident.

JPK

[grad]

[quote JPK]

When traveling in the boonies in the winter:
1. Always have at least a 3/4 tank of gas. Allows for idle time during delays and helps with traction.

2. Know where you are going.

3. Have someone who knows your route and schedule.

There are probably about a dozen other things like a shovel, sand/salt and other stuff that you can find at the AAA site.

I know it is easy to armchair quarterback this now, but this appears to have been a preventable incident.

JPK
What?!? No GPS?!?

[Chupa Chupa]

Trust me a GPS is no panacea. I scream at mine more than hug it. If I listened to it trying to take me from Baltimore to my home in NoVA it would haul me through the WORST parts of DC since that is the "fastest" and "shortest" route.

All I can say is tht it's easy to Monday morning QB. We weren't in the car. We don't know exactly what happened.

[JoeH]

JPK, well I don't know why he did not have a GPS, but being a bit of a gadget freak myself, I still don't have one. As for some of the other points you mention:

The map - As of the last I read on this, it was not clear to the authorities which map they had been using. One map source for the area does have a note in small red print about the road being closed in winter. Another company's map doess not have that note. On a personal note, I find red printing hard to detect, let alone read at night.

Cell phone - They had three with them. Part of the reason the wife and kids at the car were found at all, was that two cell phone engineers managed to locate a couple momentary contacts in the logs of two towers in the area. Given their knowledge of the area, they were able to point to a specific sector to be searched. One of those contacts was only about a second, they were essentially in a no service area for cells. If they had a different service it is possible this clue would not have been available at all. As another person posted in one of the other threads about this incident, service in that region is almost completely confined to areas around cities and to within 10-20 miles of major highway corridors.

Signage - I live in the Northeast, there are a number of roads around here that are "technically" closed during the winter months. Few have signs, and this is in relatively populated areas where signage does get kept up. In remote areas away from towns where they were, I suspect signage is next to non-existent.

[OWC Jamie]

A satellite phone would have been a wee bit more useful.


When you're "only" going from here to there you often don't plan for things going wrong.
Trust and faith can be considered a human fault.

[jeffNOTjon]

Poor guy trudged over 10 miles in a big U-Turn and was located less than a mile away from the car, just short of Black Bear Lodge.

[sscutchen]

[quote JPK]1. Out of anyone in the whole world except for the CEO of Garmin himself- shouldn't he have had a GPS?

2. One report said they read the map wrong and missed a turn that would get them to an interstate.

3. The road they were on was map marked as being possibly closed during the winter. I would think that it would have been marked with signage as well? Would you question things if you were on a road and didn't see any other cars in either direction?

4. The reports I have read said their cell phone was out of battery too. Did he not have a car adapter or one of those battery extender packs? While their location could have precluded making a call, if their cell phone was on couldn't they have at least used it for narrowing the circle to find them/him.
Here's a link to the place where the car got stuck:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=grants+pass+oregon&ie=UTF8&z=14&ll=42.627518,-123.832226&spn=0.026397,0.084286&t=h&om=1

It is near a lookout on Bear Creek Road, which is also NF 23.
You can zoom out so see better where this is.

I think they were trying to get to Gold Beach on the coast.

1. A GPS mapping device like a Tom-Tom might not have mentioned that this road was not kept clear in winter.

2. The road they were on goes, basically, from I-5 to PCH/OCH 101. I think they were going to the coast, not from the coast.

3. This stuff is my biggest question. You are on a deserted road... no traffic. I would think there has to be some signage. And the road is becoming snow covered. Why no u-turn and retrace your steps? Why keep plowing (literally) forward?

4. There was not enough cell phone coverage where they were to actually use a phone... but what eventually got the gals rescued was her phone connected briefly to a tower somewhere and the network tried to send a text message when it saw her. That brief "ping" was logged and was enough to establish a radius for the search. so she must have had some battery as well.

[AlphaDog]

"3. This stuff is my biggest question. You are on a deserted road... no traffic. There has to be sinage. And the road is becoming snow covered. Why no u-turn and retrace your steps? Why keep plowing (literally) forward?

According to the interview with a law enforcement official from Oregon that I saw last evening, James Kim was not able to turn the car around, or at least he thought he wasn't able to. They stated at one point he had the car in reverse, with the driver's door open, attempting to back the car in the direction from which it had come. The snow was falling so heavily that his visibility became non-existent. As you look now at pictures of the area in which the car was stuck, you can see that he probably did have plenty of room to turn around, but he wouldn't have known that in a snowstorm. Some of the roads in that area have treacherous dropoffs.

Here's a link to an online article that gives more information about the efforts to track the one brief signal from the cell phone. I found it interesting.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/10474550/detail.html

[papercup]

Onstar would have worked, and saved his life.

It was an option on his car, too.

[sscutchen]

[quote AlphaDog]Here's a link to an online article that gives more information about the efforts to track the one brief signal from the cell phone. I found it interesting.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/10474550/detail.html
Mentions they were last seen at a restaurant in Roseburg... so they were on I-5 and headed to Gold Beach/ 101