The defeat of Trump, the rise of fascism, and what we should really be focusing on

[mattkime]

The defeat of Trump has revealed something perhaps more frightening than his presidency - the resilience of his sway in the republican party, the blue prints he's left for those still in power, and the multitudes that support both the means and ends of this method of governing.

The Dems have been debating - mostly internally - the best way to achieve their aims. How should the senate approach the filibuster rules? Is Biden signing too many executive orders? How do we govern in cooperation with Republicans?

I don't want to entirely dismiss these concerns. They should be thought about and inform how we execute but lets not kid ourselves, these questions are not ultimately important. Votes will not change based on senatorial procedural changes. Republicans are unlikely to join any legislative efforts unless the alternative might mean removal from office.

I think some in politics, particularly those who have been in the game are slow to see how things have changed. I too would like to see bipartisan cooperation but its foolish to think that the Democrats have any control in this. They should leave the door open only in so far as it does not slow down their agenda.

In my opinion, Democrats must govern with the understanding that they're ultimately fighting anti-democratic forces. When government fails to function, Republicans benefit as it plays into their world view. Republicans are going to try to limit the vote, increase gerrymandering, and entrench minority rule. This is a difficult battle but one that must be fought.

It will take 2-3 elections (6 years?) of significant losses for the Republican party to change their tune. We must remember that despite losing the presidency, they gained in the house and in state houses across the country.

I do not yet know what you do about all the little Trumps. Or the QAnon believers. What must occur for them to change their tune?

[sekker]

Yes to bipartisanship, no to fascism.

Not a hard line to draw at all.

You support anti-Democratic principles? Not going to work with you.

You support the Constitution and want to make the US better? There is an open seat at the table.

[rjmacs]

I don't think it makes any sense to try to convert the QAnon and blindered supporters of the ex-president.

As for governing, the best way the Democrats can increase their support is to give the public what it needs, and pass laws (requires eliminating the legislative filibuster, or reduce the threshold to something manageable) that actually help people.

You can't win an argument over an ideological divide with logic or facts. You can change people's living conditions, provide needed support, and diminish some (not all) of the vitriol by giving the public what it needs, whether they agree with you or not.

The worst thing the Democrats can do right now is to escalate rhetoric and attack the 'deplorables' as bad people. Just make sure they can pay their bills, keep or acquire health insurance, and find work. Leave the rest alone.

[btfc]

“ Just make sure they can pay their bills, keep or acquire health insurance, and find work “

I point that I make frequently in conversations.

People want to be able to build a good life, with good shelter, good food, and good health. They want to be able to start a family. They want to know that they are going to struggle all their lives and not die miserable and alone.

This is true of the deplorables, of BLM, of the Palestinians, and the Uighurs.

The divide between the haves and have nots is unsustainable and desperately needs to be addressed.

[sekker]

rjmacs wrote:
I don't think it makes any sense to try to convert the QAnon and blindered supporters of the ex-president.

As for governing, the best way the Democrats can increase their support is to give the public what it needs, and pass laws (requires eliminating the legislative filibuster, or reduce the threshold to something manageable) that actually help people.

You can't win an argument over an ideological divide with logic or facts. You can change people's living conditions, provide needed support, and diminish some (not all) of the vitriol by giving the public what it needs, whether they agree with you or not.

The worst thing the Democrats can do right now is to escalate rhetoric and attack the 'deplorables' as bad people. Just make sure they can pay their bills, keep or acquire health insurance, and find work. Leave the rest alone.

No, there is a time to define right and wrong. We are living through one such time. Fascism is wrong, democracy is the base of our country.

The 'deplorables' that are a part of the MAGA movement who believe the Jan 6 attack was wrong? Those I can work with.

Those that want to defend the attack on the Capitol who planned to execute the VP and Speaker of the House?

No.

I will give them time to come to their senses, but - no.

[wurm]

btfc wrote:
“ Just make sure they can pay their bills, keep or acquire health insurance, and find work “

...They want to be able to start a family. They want to know that they are going to struggle all their lives and not die miserable and alone.

Sadly, some have shown they want all that for themselves, but not necessarily for the "others".

[Acer]

Example: Despite all the fussing about Obamacare, when it came down to it, the Republicans could not muster the political will to kill it. The predicted destruction of our way of life never occurred. The deductibles may suck and the premiums not as cheap as we'd all like, but in the end it works for too many people.

[mattkime]

btfc wrote: People want to be able to build a good life, with good shelter, good food, and good health. They want to be able to start a family. They want to know that they are going to struggle all their lives and not die miserable and alone.

While this is true it doesn't fully explain Trump's support. I agree that a lot of his supporters fear they're losing something but they span the economic spectrum much more than is commonly acknowledged.

Its possible that the republican party will lose some funding by companies that don't want chaos monkeys but I can't help but wonder if I'm being too positive.

[btfc]

‘Sadly, some have shown they want all that for themselves, but not necessarily for the "others".’

True. Some of them are selfish, or evil people. I would guess that most of them are scared, ignorant, miserable people that let themselves get manipulated by and for the purposes of others.

[p8712]

btfc wrote:
“ Just make sure they can pay their bills, keep or acquire health insurance, and find work “

I point that I make frequently in conversations.

People want to be able to build a good life, with good shelter, good food, and good health. They want to be able to start a family. They want to know that they are going to struggle all their lives and not die miserable and alone.

This is true of the deplorables, of BLM, of the Palestinians, and the Uighurs.

The divide between the haves and have nots is unsustainable and desperately needs to be addressed.

A disturbing number of people want comfortable lives AND someone/something to kick around. It doesn't just go away.