Posts: 22,245
Threads: 2,845
Joined: May 2025
Reputation:
2
... I just came across this little tidbit:
http://boston.doctoroogle.com/dentist_complaints.cfm
http://boston.doctoroogle.com/user/contact.cfm
... interesting. So dentists can complain and get their ratings yanked, and possibly even the names of the rater(s) so as to initiate a lawsuit against their patient.
I wonder why, if this is the case, that it isn't also true for ratemyprofessor.com ... I've received a number of nasty, negative (and even possibly libelous) reviews there. (Mostly I think it's from students who didn't get the grade they wanted from me.)
I also notice a couple more disturbing developments:
1) ratemyprofessor is apparently encouraging students to covertly take photos of their profs (presumably using cell phones) to post to their website. I believe this is illegal, but I'm not sure. More info and discussion here: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/11/02/rmp ... at the very least, it is a gross violation of privacy.
2) On a related point, some students have apparently been taking video of their profs, posting to YouTube: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/09/06/youtube ... again, I believe this is illegal, but am not sure, but again a violation of privacy.
... while all of this is from the context of the prof, I'd make the point (as I did above) that-- why limit this to students and professors? Why not allow other professions to be photographed and videotaped without their permission? And to allow their performance to be anonymously posted to website(s)?
It raises the whole question of whether you can say just anything you want, whenever you want, about someone doing their job. (It's very easy to defend the students in this case, but... how would you like it if, for your job, there was a ratings website where anyone could post pretty much anything they wanted without repercussions... say, ratemypharmacist.com, ratemytaxidriver.com, ratemywebdesigner.com, etc. ... you get the idea...)
Posts: 8,225
Threads: 431
Joined: Jan 2009
Reputation:
0
You're showing a disturbing trend of disdain and distrust for students and anything that promotes their rights or interests.
I'm not attempting to be provocative or insulting when I write this and I don't need a reply: Are you sure that you're in the right profession?
Posts: 4,865
Threads: 581
Joined: Jun 2025
Reputation:
1
So anyone who knows your name will be able to google as many photos of you as they like . . .
Posts: 22,245
Threads: 2,845
Joined: May 2025
Reputation:
2
[quote MacMagus]You're showing a disturbing trend of disdain and distrust for students and anything that promotes their rights or interests.
MacMagus, I don't believe in unlimited "student rights", no more than I believe in unlimited "professor rights". Students do have rights, but I don't believe that unlimited anonymous free speech about their profs is among them. When I myself was a student, I would never have conceived of some of the behavior that my students have exhibited toward me. (There does seem to have been a total shift toward student "consumerism", which did not exist when I was in school.) It's not just merely that I wouldn't have done these things, it's that I wouldn't have had the sense of entitlement that students apparently now feel-- not to be insulting, but I would have known my place, and known that there is a reason the professor was the professor and I was only the student... I respected the professors for being professors.
It's true, I don't trust students' judgments in these sorts of things-- reading their comments, it's hard to believe they would say such things. I also have to remind myself that the students who are likely to say such things are the ones who feel most strongly negative, and do not necessarily represent the majority.
[quote MacMagus]'m not attempting to be provocative or insulting when I write this and I don't need a reply: Are you sure that you're in the right profession?
Though I have my doubts that you intended that not to be provocative or insulting, I will answer it honestly anyway:
Good question. I do wonder what students expect these days. It seems what they expect is an easy "A". Reading more, I learned that (not surprisingly) positive ratings on such websites correlate with easy grading.
All I can say to you on this point is -- wait until you are in my position, before you judge me... it is very easy to criticize, very hard to do better yourself! 
Posts: 22,245
Threads: 2,845
Joined: May 2025
Reputation:
2
[quote h']So anyone who knows your name will be able to google as many photos of you as they like . . .
True ... but I think the posting of the pics is meant to be of candid shots, not a departmental photo. I have no problem with someone using a photo of me, so long as they asked (and received) permission to do so.
Posts: 8,225
Threads: 431
Joined: Jan 2009
Reputation:
0
> Students do have rights, but I don't believe that unlimited anonymous free speech about
> their profs is among them.
Again, no answer necessary....
'Just pointing out that the right to speak or write anonymously when not a matter of slander/libel or incitement to illegal acts is generally protected under the First Amendment to the Constitution under the principles of freedom of speech and freedom of association.
http://www.eff.org/issues/anonymity
Also, it might be worth noting for your own edification that you are posting somewhat anonymously in a public forum wherein you frequently criticize students. Why are they not to be permitted the same privilege with regard to you?
Posts: 7,333
Threads: 1,140
Joined: May 2025
[quote MacMagus]
Also, it might be worth noting for your own edification that you are posting somewhat anonymously in a public forum wherein you frequently criticize students. Why are they not to be permitted the same privilege with regard to you?
I don't think he names them so that is a big difference.
Posts: 801
Threads: 77
Joined: Nov 2008
I let them use audio recording devices, but I have long made it a policy to bar students from using cameras in my classroom. Most of the places I've taught have had similar campus-wide policies.
It has less to do with my privacy than it does the privacy of my students. My classroom is not a public space, but I do have a diminished expectation of privacy when lecturing in front of 30 to 250 students in a room equipped with surveillance cameras and -- sometimes -- video cameras running for distance learning applications.
My students, OTOH, did not sign up to perform in front of an audience.
If my lectures end up on YouTube I will probably complain to the school's lawyers, but mostly I try not to pick my nose or physically assault a student any time that I might be caught on tape (or solid-state equivalent).
Honestly, if I wasn't comfortable (occasionally) being lampooned or pilloried I'd never step in front of a class of college students again.
As for ratemyprofessors.com -- just ignore it. There is nothing there that you need to see.
A colleague of mine was viciously attacked on that site. From the content of the slanderous posts, it was clear that her critic had never been in any of her classes. She was never able to prove it, but she suspected that it was an ex-boyfriend.
Since there is no way to know if the negative posts come from unique students, or from students at all, no reasonable employer would act upon them.
As for what the students make of these ratings, that it something over which you have little or no control.
Posts: 22,245
Threads: 2,845
Joined: May 2025
Reputation:
2
[quote MacMagus]> Students do have rights, but I don't believe that unlimited anonymous free speech about
> their profs is among them.
Again, no answer necessary....
'Just pointing out that the right to speak or write anonymously when not a matter of slander/libel or incitement to illegal acts is generally protected under the First Amendment to the Constitution under the principles of freedom of speech and freedom of association.
http://www.eff.org/issues/anonymity
Also, it might be worth noting for your own edification that you are posting somewhat anonymously in a public forum wherein you frequently criticize students. Why are they not to be permitted the same privilege with regard to you?
OK, to take this point-by-point:
1) I chose my words carefully: "unlimited anonymous free speech" -- sure, I believe in free speech, but not when it can occur without consequences, as is often the case in a situation of anonymity. If you (or I, or someone else) says something derogatory that affects someone negatively, that should have consequences, and anonymity is not a shield for that. That is to say, slander is slander-- if you say something untrue about someone, you should be held responsible for what you say, regardless if it's in print (libel), spoken, or out on a website somewhere... hence why I brought up the point about the dentist rating website, and also possible websites for other occupations (e.g., web designer, taxi driver, whatever). Freedom of speech is NOT absolute -- Supreme Court decisions have ruled as much. The EFF is quite correct in that anonymous speech is protected-- but again, that assumes that what is being said is not defamatory, slanderous, or libelous-- and I could make a pretty good case that it is, in the case of the websites we're discussing.
2) I wouldn't say I "frequently criticize students". I have stated an opinion that some (not all) students show certain behaviors and tendencies. I've also been-- I think-- quite measured in my judgments-- namely that this isn't something that all students do, nor are they necessarily to blame for it, nor are they themselves even necessarily able to see how their behavior comes across. The latter point is fairly important, as a number of students may truly not realize how their own behavior contributes to a situation. We as profs have a responsibility to teach, and part of that teaching (this comes from my institution) is in student conduct-- we as profs are supposed to be the arbiters of student conduct... which is a bit of a catch-22. Here is a relevant example. It is hard to teach students when they are unruly or disruptive in class. We, as profs, are expected to "control the classroom" -- which for the most part we do... but the question comes up in the first place of why we should *have* to control the classroom... isn't it the students' responsibility, not ours, for them to conduct themselves in an adult manner? Yet we as profs are supposed to-- in some fashion-- act as disciplinarians in addition to teachers. My point is that we as profs are not responsible for everything, not nearly everything... I cannot force a student to behave properly in class (if they don't want to), nor make a student learn or do the work, and yet seemingly I get blamed if they don't.
3) vp is correct, I don't go around criticizing specific students on websites. I am mindful of the fact that even though anonymous free speech is protected, I am still responsible for what I write online.
4) MacMagus, you mentioned previously that you are a Masters student. I do think that may be coloring your viewpoint a little bit, in that -- having been where you are now, not that long ago I might add -- I can actually see both sides of this. I do believe students are entitled to their opinion. However, what about my rights as an individual and professional, not to be defamed? If you were to have people write something about you -- as a TA, graduate assistant, whatever -- which you felt was hurtful and simply untrue, how would you feel about it?
5) My general point -- which may have gotten lost in here somewhere -- was to say -- these ratings websites, regardless of whether what's being said is libelous or not-- I don't believe any of them is a good idea. It's a very dangerous road to go down, when we start anonymously posting evaluations of people in their various career tracks (or in general, see below). Just as we have guidelines for online behavior in a forum such as this, there should be guidelines for any of these websites that allow the people who are being discussed to have the comments written about them taken down. (It would be one thing if the forums/websites police themselves-- as for example MRF does-- but apparently the other websites are still pretty much unregulated, and anyone can say pretty much anything.) I'm also reminded of the recent case of a man who was accused on a "cheaters" website of having an STD: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2184494
Posts: 8,225
Threads: 431
Joined: Jan 2009
Reputation:
0
> I do believe students are entitled to their opinion. However,
> what about my rights as an individual and professional, not
> to be defamed?
Truth negates defamation. If someone says/writes something untruthful and damaging about you in a public forum, you have recourse to the law. That you have not alleged any such thing happening suggests that you're not complaining about defamation per se, but are simply upset that people have the ability to air their (sometimes negative) opinions about you in public.
> If you were to have people write something about you --
> as a TA, graduate assistant, whatever -- which you felt
> was hurtful and simply untrue, how would you feel about it?
Obviously, there are things that might be hurtful and allegations that would prompt me to legal action.
But I think that your focus is on lawful behavior that you'd prefer to outlaw.
If what was said about me was true or was a considered opinion then I'd take it under consideration and get on with my life.
I buy into the First Amendment. I think that it's important. And if I'm so much of a schmuck that people feel the need to declare it to the world then I probably need that brought to my attention.
|
