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+--- Thread: "Why Romney's bogus Jeep claims matter" (/showthread.php?tid=143451)
Re: "Why Romney's bogus Jeep claims matter" - rankandfile - 10-26-2012
Romney is a caricature of himself.
He claims great business experience and yet, his economic "plan" lacks all specifics and doesn't add up. I don't believe for a moment that the jeep story is anything but a deliberate misrepresentation to create FUD.
Romney is a shameless snake oil salesman. For those who haven't read it, I recommend the editorial from the Salt Lake Tribune on Oct. 19, 2012, that $tevie linked to:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/55019844-82/romney-obama-state-president.html.csp
Re: "Why Romney's bogus Jeep claims matter" - samintx - 10-26-2012
That statement is SO bogus, Lemony. Obama doesn't know what bankruptcy involves. He kept saying "shutting down" and no more car companies. As a lawyer he should know Chapter 11 lets the company stay running and get its finances in order without pandering to the the Unions and Dumping the BOND holders like a hot potato.
Lemon Drop wrote:
If Romney had had his way with our auto industry ALL of our manufacturers would be owned by the Italians, or at least somebody outside the US.
Love this part:
"For additional context, it's worth noting that the Detroit News reports today that Chrysler is adding an additional 1,100 new jobs. Why? To build more Jeeps right here in the United States."
Re: "Why Romney's bogus Jeep claims matter" - Lemon Drop - 10-26-2012
samintx wrote:
That statement is SO bogus, Lemony. Obama doesn't know what bankruptcy involves. He kept saying "shutting down" and no more car companies. As a lawyer he should know Chapter 11 lets the company stay running and get its finances in order without pandering to the the Unions and Dumping the BOND holders like a hot potato.
[quote=Lemon Drop]
If Romney had had his way with our auto industry ALL of our manufacturers would be owned by the Italians, or at least somebody outside the US.
Love this part:
"For additional context, it's worth noting that the Detroit News reports today that Chrysler is adding an additional 1,100 new jobs. Why? To build more Jeeps right here in the United States."
Sammy,
Please name the company (one is enough) that was willing to lend money to GM so it could stay in operation and in one piece.
Uncle Sam was the lender of last resort. Even Bain Capital refused to bail them out.
Letting them go bankrupt without a loan from Uncle Sam would have meant breaking them into smaller pieces so that the somebody would put the capital in. Those lenders would most likely have been foreign. I'm sure you are fully aware of the state of the US capital markets at that time.
So, name any company that was willing to lend to GM.
Re: "Why Romney's bogus Jeep claims matter" - deckeda - 10-27-2012
@cbelt3: "I saw a story today" is quickly forgotten by the easily swayed, when during it's presentation:
1) They won't fact check it and he doesn't cite the source.
2) He quickly moves on to a "conclusion" that's incendiary, which is the main goal.
At some point --- and I think you can see it's not a huge leap --- using a worthless source for the purposes of making a wild accusation meant to {somehow?] make your opponent look wrong = lying.
@samintx:
Lemon's correct. GM couldn't have existed in its recognizable form with "a Chapter 11" --- the local small biz down the street can do that, not GM. Lots of stories about that back then. Chrysler was [once again] caught in bad enough shape that new majority owners were sought and the deal pushed through. The only reason Ford escaped all that mess was because they'd previously/recently borrowed a bunch of money that the other two had not, so Ford had a cushion to weather the storm.
Re: "Why Romney's bogus Jeep claims matter" - RgrF - 10-27-2012
All this make the Detroit Daily News endorsement of Romney somewhat puzzling.
Re: "Why Romney's bogus Jeep claims matter" - Lemon Drop - 10-27-2012
RgrF wrote:
All this make the Detroit Daily News endorsement of Romney somewhat puzzling.
Not really. That paper is conservative and has rarely failed to endorse the Republican candidate. They had this to say about the auto bailout (hello samintex)
Thank Obama for auto rescue
Don't assume that it was a no-brainer for a conservative newspaper to endorse a conservative presidential candidate. We recognize and are grateful for the extraordinary contribution President Obama made to Michigan in leading the rescue of General Motors and Chrysler. Had either of those companies been allowed to go under, Michigan's economic maladies would have become fatal.
The president stepped up with the support the two automakers needed to keep themselves and their suppliers in business. We have said in past editorials that while Romney rightly advocated for structured bankruptcies in his infamous "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt" New York Times op-ed, he was wrong in suggesting the automakers could have found operating capital in the private markets. In that article, Romney suggested government-backed loans to keep the companies afloat post bankruptcy. But what GM and Chrysler needed were bridge loans to get them through the process, and the private credit markets were unwilling to provide them. Obama put a rescue team to work and they were true to the task.
We have criticized Obama in past editorials for rewriting bankruptcy law on the fly to hold harmless his supporters in the United Auto Workers union. Still, Michigan is better off today because of Obama's leadership on this issue.
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121025/OPINION01/210250332#ixzz2AVth1N8j
Re: "Why Romney's bogus Jeep claims matter" - Lemon Drop - 10-27-2012
"A Chrysler spokesman scorned the misinterpretation as "a leap that would be difficult even for professional circus acrobats," explaining, "Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China. It's simply reviewing the opportunities to return Jeep output to China for the world's largest auto market. U.S. Jeep assembly lines will continue to stay in operation."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57541359/romney-cites-incorrect-auto-manufacturing-claim-in-ohio/?tag=contentAux;mostDiscussed
Re: "Why Romney's bogus Jeep claims matter" - Surfrider - 10-27-2012
You can fool most of the people, most of the time....if the guy you're running against is black.
Re: "Why Romney's bogus Jeep claims matter" - Yoyodyne ArtWorks - 10-28-2012
Surfrider wrote:
You can fool most of the people, most of the time....if the guy you're running against is black.
+1
Re: "Why Romney's bogus Jeep claims matter" - $tevie - 10-29-2012
Did Romney intend to mislead Ohio voters? I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. Presidential campaigns are chaotic, particularly in their final weeks. Maybe somebody on Romney's staff read the story, which bubbled up in the right-wing press and included a genuinely confusing statement from Fiat, and gave it to the candidate without checking its veracity. But, even after Chrysler clarified its intentions, the Romney campaign refused to answer questions from reporters about the erroneous claim. Now I think I know why: A new Romney ad references the same story.
The campaign does not appear to have announced the ad. The Obama campaign captured video of it, during a broadcast in the Toledo area. Here's how it ends:
Obama took GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy, and sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build jeeps in China. Mitt Romney will fight for every American job.
Although the statements about Chrysler are true individually, together they imply that the Obama Administration's action led to the outsourcing of American jobs.
http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/109256/romney-ohio-chrysler-jeep-china-toledo-obama-gm-rescue#