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+--- Thread: McCain camp on the defensive re: Troopergate (/showthread.php?tid=62253)
Re: McCain camp on the defensive re: Troopergate - PeterB - 09-17-2008
karsen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Filliam H. Muffman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > karsen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I didn't read the article.
> > >
> >
> > Oh great, don't let something like the facts
> color
> > your opinions. 8-) Have you ever tried to fire
> > someone represented by a union or a strong
> > contract?
>
> I didn't read the article because I don't see a
> link to the article because I happen to have the
> original poster blocked. I've read articles about
> this though and from what you've all posted here
> the above article is more of the same.
>
> The only opinion I need to have is a State Trooper
> who tased a child SHOULD BE FIRED! I don't care
> who the governor was, it's irrelevant. I don't
> care that the child "asked him to do it" that's a
> laughable excuse. A taser can EASILY kill a child
> http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/health/207168_tasers
> 10.html. If the child died would you still defend
> this clown? The other incidents involving the
> Trooper are icing on the cake.
>
> I think if this was some other Governor,
> especially a Democratic one and not he Republican
> VP nominee, I bet most f you would be glad the
> trooper was fired. To me it's your opinions of
> Palin that are getting in the way of the facts.
>
> So let's just pretend for a minute you have a
> child, and your kids sees a cop and asks the cop
> to tase him. The cop does, because "heck, the kid
> asked me to do it." Would you want the cop fired,
> or not?
Karsen, on the face of it, I might agree with you, but read this excerpt from Wiki, and see what you think about it:
Taser incident
Wooten was also found to have violated department policy in using a Taser on his then 11-year old stepson in 2003; he told investigators that he did so "in a training capacity" after the child had asked to be tased in order to show his cousin, Sarah Palin's daughter Bristol, that he "wasn't a mama's boy".[30][13] In a statement to the police, the boy said "that he wanted to be tased to show that he's not a mommy's boy in front of Bristol. Following being tased he went upstairs to tell his mother that he was fine."[17] In a statement to the police, Molly McCann said "she was up stairs giving a bath to the kids ? Mike was going to show Payton what it feels like and she told Mike that he better not."[17] According to Molly's account, she remained upstairs during the incident.
In a September 2008 newspaper interview Wooten said that he "deeply regretted" the Taser incident.[31] He said that he set the Taser to "test" mode, meaning that it was on low power. Wooten added that he attached clips to the child rather than firing darts from a gun, that he turned on the power for less than one second, and that afterwards his stepson "thought it was great and wanted to do it all over again". He stated that "everyone laughed about" the incident at the time.[31] He also said that he "would like to put this behind me and get on with my life", and wished Palin and her family good luck.[31] According to a spokesman for Taser International, "if the Taser is fired for just a second, it would feel like your funny bone was hit."[30]
Although the Taser incident happened in 2003, it was not reported to police until on or after April 11, 2005, the day that Molly McCann filed for divorce. On June 6, 2005, Sgt. Ron Wall, a police investigator, asked Sarah Palin's daughter Bristol why they "waited so long and brought the incident up after two years." Bristol said "because of the divorce."[17]
...
it smacks to me of an overblown issue, one which was only brought up because of divorce proceedings, and which certainly shouldn't be used as the basis for firing someone... and actually, the fact that it was a marital issue which was brought up for use to try to get someone fired is itself a bit suspicious...
Re: McCain camp on the defensive re: Troopergate - mikeylikesit - 09-17-2008
Karsen -
The trooper was never fired, that was apparently the bone of contention with the Governor. The issue isn't the trooper - he was being dealt with within the system. The issue is did the Governor use her power to try and get a former brother-in-law fired. She did fire his boss who wouldn't fire him. The issue is the firing of the head of the State Police.
You are using the trooper to excuse what may or may not have been a misuse of power to settle a personal matter. Governors aren't supposed to do that. Her own party (your party) decided that an investigation was called for and ordered it to proceed. Governor Palin even said she wanted it to go forward to clear the air.
Now under pressure from the national Republican Party the Alaska Attorney General she appointed is telling people to ignore what appear to be legal subpoenas, he wants to postpone the investigation until after the november election. What sort of law enforcement officer makes a decision to proceed with an investigation or not based on an election cycle.
None of this appears to reflect well on Mrs. Palin or the respect her party has for the rule of law, does it?
Re: McCain camp on the defensive re: Troopergate - Lux Interior - 09-17-2008
Karen wrote:
So let's just pretend for a minute you have a child, and your kids sees a cop and asks the cop to tase him. The cop does, because "heck, the kid asked me to do it." Would you want the cop fired, or not?
If you want to change the parameters, why not go all the way and say, "Let's pretend a cop raped your daughter..."
Re: McCain camp on the defensive re: Troopergate - Jimmypoo - 09-17-2008
Somebody taser Lux.
Re: McCain camp on the defensive re: Troopergate - Lux Interior - 09-17-2008
Superman wrote:
Somebody taser Lux.
That would only make me more powerful.
.
Re: McCain camp on the defensive re: Troopergate - mikeylikesit - 09-17-2008
Don't the synapsis have to be in working order for a taser to have an effect?
Re: McCain camp on the defensive re: Troopergate - Filliam H. Muffman - 09-17-2008
karsen, I think Wooten should have been fired based on his overall record. It takes time to do it right so that they do not get sued for wrongful termination. Monegan might have deserved being fired too but it looks bad because of the timing and the pressure from the Governors office. Again, read up on it. If the Tasering incident was so bad, why was it not reported until McCann filed for divorce two years later?
Re: McCain camp on the defensive re: Troopergate - JoeH - 09-17-2008
What overall record? Guy gets involved in a messy divorce and custody proceedings. Gets a large number of complaints lodged against him during that time period, including ones dredged up from years before. All from members of his ex-wife's family. No complaints from any other persons outside that family group that I can find mention of before or during that time period. Complaints investigated and disciplinary action taken by the commanding officer of the troopers, including re-instating one issue that the review board had dismissed as unsubstantiated. I do not see enough there for termination.
As for the commissioner's firing. it sure looks like a mess. Enough so that the legislative committee voted unanimously including all GOP members, to investigate. There was a pattern of contact about the issue form her and her associates, and husband on the issue of firing that sure raises a stink.
Re: McCain camp on the defensive re: Troopergate - karsen - 09-17-2008
Fillium,
Well said.
I agree the timing of the firing looks bad, and anytime you're dealing with a divorce it only look worse. The facts are slowly coming out now so maybe there is documentation to support the recent insubordination claims.
As for why the tasering incident wasn't reported for 2 years and was first brought to light in divorce procedures that seems fairly obvious to me. Either the wife didn't want to upset her husband by reporting the incident (if the guy is tasing children I hate to imagine the other abuses going on in that household), or she was using it as leverage in the divorce. Likely both.
Here's some interesting information about the case: http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/09/new_documents_released_in_troo.asp
The McCain campaign released documents to show that Gov. Palin did not fire her political appointee, Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan, because he refused to fire state trooper Mike Wooten, Gov. Palin's former brother-in-law. An internal state trooper investigation found that Wooten had threatened that Palin's father would "eat a f---ing bullet." Palin had raised concerns to Monegan about the fact that Wooten was still carrying a gun and working for the state, but Palin's legal counsel contends that the decision to sack Monegan was not related to Wooten.
Rather, Palin's lawyer writes, the decision was "based on [Monegan's] refusal to execute her Administration's policy on fiscal and budget matters, a refusal that between late 2007 and the middle of 2008 blossomed into outright insubordination."
Ed Morrissey usefully outlines Monegan's record of insubordination:
* 12/9/07: Monegan holds a press conference with Hollis French to push his own budget plan.
* 1/29/08: Palin's staffers have to rework their procedures to keep Monegan from bypassing normal channels for budget requests.
* February 2008: Monegan publicly releases a letter he wrote to Palin supporting a project she vetoed.
* June 26, 2008: Monegan bypassed the governor's office entirely and contacted Alaska's Congressional delegation to gain funding for a project.
To the extent the Governor is alleged to have sought a non-financial personal benefit from an attempt to have Mr. Wooten dismissed, that benefit would have been a benefit shared generally with the public -- namely, the benefit of a trooper force free from rogue officers who have been found guilty of acts of violence and recklessness against the public. The Ethics Act specifically permits state officials to act in such circumstances, and thus even if the allegations were true -- which they assuredly are not -- there would be not probable cause to pursue the claim in this matter.
Re: McCain camp on the defensive re: Troopergate - Lux Interior - 09-17-2008
karsen wrote:
As for why the tasering incident wasn't reported for 2 years and was first brought to light in divorce procedures that seems fairly obvious to me. Either the wife didn't want to upset her husband by reporting the incident (if the guy is tasing children I hate to imagine the other abuses going on in that household), or she was using it as leverage in the divorce. Likely both.
Wow. You know a lot about this case. It's fairly obvious that you have some inside source.