Taking the idea of a kid-leash a bit far...

[RAMd®d]

Most of us who treat each other humanly recognize that some things are just as they appear.


And appearances aren't always what they seem.

What I'm wondering is what are the factors here that tell you that tell you- "humiliating and demeaning"? What facial characteristics and/or body language tell you this?

You may feel humiliated and demeaned. You may feel humiliated and demeaned for the child. You may feel sorry for him. But is the child humiliated and demeaned if he's enjoying being towed? Is he competent enough to feel humiliation even though he may not be able to define it? What evidence is provided of humiliation and demeaning behavior? I don't see it.

From the video I don't see him smiling or hear him laughing. Neither do I see him kicking or hear him screaming. From the video, would it be a given that we could differentiate between him crying or laughing? HD video might have helped. Audio might have provided a further clue. He might be dead, except that we know from subsequent text that he's not. And that he's holding one leg slightly raised.

How 'bout Mom? Do we even know that it's his mom, big sister, and not some crazed nanny or stranger abducting this child? Is she smiling or scowling? Did she smack the boy and give him a beatdown before dragging him off? Is she going to dust the boy off when they get outside and put him in the car seat or is she going to toss him in the trunk until she can get home and lock him in the attic? As near as I can tell, her demeanor appears pretty neutral, as does that of the child.

One may read into it what they want, I suppose. Some people may even be predisposed to read cruelty, humiliation, poor parenting, and demeaning behavior. Based on what's shown, I say that's a reach, a stretch, a guess. Now one may guess correctly. But then that's just a matter of or desire to be "right" rather than objective.

If I were to leap to a conclusion without considering indications or facts, or leaned toward sarcasm, I would say that you're projecting.

The fact is the video, such as it is, is just what it is. A kid being pulled by an adult.

Another fact- a lot of people are nothing if not judgmental.

[(vikm)]

as each day passes it becomes more and more apparent to me that many that have kids shouldn't have and those that choose not to probably should have been the ones that did.

[Travlen' JazzZen]

RAMd®d wrote:
Most of us who treat each other humanly recognize that some things are just as they appear.


And appearances aren't always what they seem.

What I'm wondering is what are the factors here that tell you that tell you- "humiliating and demeaning"? What facial characteristics and/or body language tell you this?

You may feel humiliated and demeaned. You may feel humiliated and demeaned for the child. You may feel sorry for him. But is the child humiliated and demeaned if he's enjoying being towed? Is he competent enough to feel humiliation even though he may not be able to define it? What evidence is provided of humiliation and demeaning behavior? I don't see it.

From the video I don't see him smiling or hear him laughing. Neither do I see him kicking or hear him screaming. From the video, would it be a given that we could differentiate between him crying or laughing? HD video might have helped. Audio might have provided a further clue. He might be dead, except that we know from subsequent text that he's not. And that he's holding one leg slightly raised.

How 'bout Mom? Do we even know that it's his mom, big sister, and not some crazed nanny or stranger abducting this child? Is she smiling or scowling? Did she smack the boy and give him a beatdown before dragging him off? Is she going to dust the boy off when they get outside and put him in the car seat or is she going to toss him in the trunk until she can get home and lock him in the attic? As near as I can tell, her demeanor appears pretty neutral, as does that of the child.

One may read into it what they want, I suppose. Some people may even be predisposed to read cruelty, humiliation, poor parenting, and demeaning behavior. Based on what's shown, I say that's a reach, a stretch, a guess. Now one may guess correctly. But then that's just a matter of or desire to be "right" rather than objective.

If I were to leap to a conclusion without considering indications or facts, or leaned toward sarcasm, I would say that you're projecting.

The fact is the video, such as it is, is just what it is. A kid being pulled by an adult.

Another fact- a lot of people are nothing if not judgmental.

All that wordage and you didn't address the issue. Under what circumstances is this acceptable? I can think of none. I wouldn't "pull" my child this way even if he did think it was fun. Children think lots of things are fun. Do we allow them to do them all? Climbing on the counters? sticking a fork in a wall socket? jumping from the couch to the coffee table? Admittedly, these are things children might do for themselves and not have imposed on them by an adult, but the point remains. Parents have a responsibility to monitor this behavior and more importantly, their own. How many parents do you know who you feel are not doing what's best for their children? Who you judge? Or are you truly so free of judgment that you're free to call me judgmental? Call me judgmental if you wish - maybe I am - so be it.
If I were to see this occurring, you can bet I would approach the parent - and have been known to strike up a supportive conversation with parents in grocery stores, parks, airports who were (appeared to be) frustrated with their children. Parenting is the toughest job in the world (for some of us) and maybe if we were all a little more responsible and empathetic with these parents, there would be less abuse. Have I jumped to conclusions? Of course. If that's you're issue, I concede. As should you - you seem to think you know my mind pretty well given a sentence or two.
In my (ever so humble) opinion, this parent needs some basic skills training. Does she need to have her child removed? Who knows. From the little snippet offered, I certainly wouldn't presume such a thing. But I do maintain that her behavior, regardless of the circumstance, is not acceptable either as discipline or fun. OK - maybe if the building were on fire and she were dragging him to safety.
I would appreciate it if the personal attacks and innuendo were left out of this conversation.

[Lux Interior]

you seem to think you know my mind pretty well given a sentence or two.

And you are judging a situation based on a few seconds of grainy video.

You have no idea what happened. Could be Johnny Knoxville wannabe doing a "Jackass" routine. Could be a total hoax. Could be a child-abusing murderer.

You have no idea. But what you think happened has you outraged. Hope I never see you on a jury.

[Black]

I found this comment from a man identifying himself as the arrestee's husband, on leave from fighting (presumably in Iraq) to deal with this situation, thought-provoking:

for one the woman is my wife and two if you would keep your nose out of other peoples business then there wont be any trouble abroud.

[Blankity Blank]

I don't have a problem with her being at least detained by authorities, and arrested if the situation dictates. Whether she's actually charged or convicted of anything will be determined by the facts.

The situation shows a child possibly at risk of physical or emotional abuse, so it bears at least some attention from authorities. Again, what actions are taken then depend on what facts are found.

Frankly, if I had been the store manager, I would have told her to stop if for no other reason than I wouldn't want to deal with any possible liability claims if the kid was injured (for example if he had whacked his head on a display or when she dragged him around that corner) or if another customer had been injured tripping over the kid or the leash.

[DaviDC.]

What a nation of busybodies we have become.

[RAMd®d]

All that wordage and you didn't address the issue.

I did, and you've missed the point yet again.

The entire point of my posts was the fact that you made outrageous claims with little to no information to support them. You were not the only one to infer what was not demonstrated, but you were the only one to say:

It appears that this child will grow up to always need someone else to control his behavior - cops, prison system, an overbearing wife. This is no way to handle poor behavior - nor is it a way give your child a free circus ride. Circumstances and poor judgment aside, this is likely a small window into the way this parent treats her child. Sad.

You've said "appears" twice and I'm at at a loss to see the objective evidence of your apparitions. That's the issue. Until I know that the mother was abusing the child, I'm not making conjecture about the fate of the child or his environment.

You say you've struck up supportive conversations. In order to do so, you have to be there. If you are, there is the possibility of seeing and hearing actions in far greater detail than this video reveals. That resolution of detail and information is simply not present in the video, yet you somehow manage to divine enough information to make your predictions.

I'd like to know how you did that and on what information you based those predictions.

I don't know that it's categorically wrong to pull a toddler around by a harness and leash. There are certainly circumstances where that would be dangerous, and that would be wrong. But categorically? We disagree.


Admittedly, these are things children might do for themselves and not have imposed on them by an adult, but the point remains.

You've made no point here. You're now comparing apple to oranges, without relevance.


Have I jumped to conclusions? Of course. If that's you're issue, I concede.

If you had read any of my posts objectively, you wouldn't need to ask the question and answer it yourself.


As should you

Concede what, exactly? My assertions that you jumped to conclusions with no evidence? Done.


I would appreciate it if the personal attacks and innuendo were left out of this conversation.

Please cite the personal attacks and the innuendo I made.

You said "this is likely a small window into the way this parent treats her child." The problem with a small window it's limited view. She has raised your ire solely by her action, regardless of motive, and you've made statements that might even qualify as accusations regarding the future of this child. You categorize what you have not observed as "sad".

I find it sad that you don't have sufficient information to make outlandish conclusions, you make them anyway, you admit that you jumped to them, and don't see the obvious problems in doing so. So I ask you how you were raised.

Given your wordage, I think there's a far bigger window into your thought processes then the one you opened to her parenting skills.

- - -

And you are judging a situation based on a few seconds of grainy video.

You have no idea what happened. Could be Johnny Knoxville wannabe doing a "Jackass" routine. Could be a total hoax. Could be a child-abusing murderer.

You have no idea. But what you think happened has you outraged. Hope I never see you on a jury.

Ok, I could have been more succinct.